Thank you UV101 and Antonio,
This is still a work in progress, too bad that the pictures I posted are so small, I really tried to make it look good, as well as sounding good
UV101, the next step on the list is to replace the small caps under the TDA1541 because I already have them, I am just enjoying it as it is now before the next upgrade.
After that I will install a new clock like the one you describe, with a dedicated transformer in an outside box, where I already have a mains filter. I am still deciding if I will put the rectification there, or near the clock.
I already had your pdf about clocks, and must thank you (and the other other members on this thread) for being the inspiration for my project. It took me a few days to read all the posts, but it was very educative
António, for this project I used the LME49720HA opamps, with dedicated regulators and Mundorf output caps, my next TDA1541 project (maybe another CD50 if I can find one cheap) will feature a very nice valve output I was thinking on those small tubes like the ones you used in yours. Where did you get the transformer?
I will try to post the pictures again
Ricardo
This is still a work in progress, too bad that the pictures I posted are so small, I really tried to make it look good, as well as sounding good
UV101, the next step on the list is to replace the small caps under the TDA1541 because I already have them, I am just enjoying it as it is now before the next upgrade.
After that I will install a new clock like the one you describe, with a dedicated transformer in an outside box, where I already have a mains filter. I am still deciding if I will put the rectification there, or near the clock.
I already had your pdf about clocks, and must thank you (and the other other members on this thread) for being the inspiration for my project. It took me a few days to read all the posts, but it was very educative
António, for this project I used the LME49720HA opamps, with dedicated regulators and Mundorf output caps, my next TDA1541 project (maybe another CD50 if I can find one cheap) will feature a very nice valve output
I was thinking on those small tubes like the ones you used in yours. Where did you get the transformer? I will try to post the pictures again
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An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Ricardo
Hi Ricardo:
I have also the LME49720HA. I agree it will sound acceptable, good mids and bass, but the highs are sterile and tiring.
Nothing compares to tubes! Until today I tried as TDA1541 output stage Amperex 6922, 6N2P-EV and 6N16B.
The last ones are the winner!
You can get the transformer needed (180V and 6,3V) at eBay, at Mr. Fikkuz, at Transformatorspecialist, or elsewhere!
If you have any questions please ask!
King regards,
Antonio
I have also the LME49720HA. I agree it will sound acceptable, good mids and bass, but the highs are sterile and tiring.
Nothing compares to tubes! Until today I tried as TDA1541 output stage Amperex 6922, 6N2P-EV and 6N16B.
The last ones are the winner!
You can get the transformer needed (180V and 6,3V) at eBay, at Mr. Fikkuz, at Transformatorspecialist, or elsewhere!
If you have any questions please ask!
King regards,
Antonio
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Hi Ricardo:
I sitll have in hands some Munford Silver Gold. It are indeed very very good output capacitors but please try russians MBM 1uF (or 1uF + 1uF) bypassed with FT-1 2000pf (teflon) and I´m sure you will be without words with what you can get wiht this conjugation - it seems there is no coupling capacitor! the music simply is like a river alive, fresh and free! But you have to let them burn around 200 hours or more...
IMHO it´s impossible to beat regarding the price (4 capacitors around 5 or 6 euros). Luckas Fikus says you only get more 5% if you jump to Mundorf Silver Gold Oil, Jensen, or Audionote, and I admit he is right!
I hope it encorage you to not be biased with brands. Please open your mind to what Russia have to offer for music at very low prices, and save your money!
The best for you,
Antonio
I sitll have in hands some Munford Silver Gold. It are indeed very very good output capacitors but please try russians MBM 1uF (or 1uF + 1uF) bypassed with FT-1 2000pf (teflon) and I´m sure you will be without words with what you can get wiht this conjugation - it seems there is no coupling capacitor! the music simply is like a river alive, fresh and free! But you have to let them burn around 200 hours or more...
IMHO it´s impossible to beat regarding the price (4 capacitors around 5 or 6 euros). Luckas Fikus says you only get more 5% if you jump to Mundorf Silver Gold Oil, Jensen, or Audionote, and I admit he is right!
I hope it encorage you to not be biased with brands. Please open your mind to what Russia have to offer for music at very low prices, and save your money!
The best for you,
Antonio
Thanks! Here's what I've got so far:
- Replace all lytic bypass caps (DAC/decoder/filter/Opamps) with 100uF Nichicon FG 25V on analogue rails and with 100uF Nichicon R7 polymer caps on digital rails + replace ceramic caps next to these with 100nF Wima MKS2.
- Replace prereg lytic caps with higher value Nichicon PW
- Postreg caps in PSU: 470uF Nichicon FG
- DC blocking caps: Wima MKS4 4.7uF (though 1uF or 2.2uF would be fine too?)
- Replace 1N4002 diodes with UF4002
- 180pF silver mica for DEM cap
- Replace Opamps
- Regulators: put LM317 (on small veroboard) at +5V power pins of DAC and filter (in place of supply resistor), LM337 at -5V and -15V power pins of DAC. Attach sizable heatsink to LM317 at filter.
- Maybe put in LM7805/7905 at decoder just to get its noise from the main rail?
Any remarks here? I'm especially curious if 100uF is fine for all the bypass caps instead of 470uF.
Later on I will replace the LM317/337 at the DAC/filter with separate PSU + TPR. I know how to do that thanks to all the information in this thread. The final step would be a clock upgrade but I'm a bit clueless on that one.
- Replace all lytic bypass caps (DAC/decoder/filter/Opamps) with 100uF Nichicon FG 25V on analogue rails and with 100uF Nichicon R7 polymer caps on digital rails + replace ceramic caps next to these with 100nF Wima MKS2.
- Replace prereg lytic caps with higher value Nichicon PW
- Postreg caps in PSU: 470uF Nichicon FG
- DC blocking caps: Wima MKS4 4.7uF (though 1uF or 2.2uF would be fine too?)
- Replace 1N4002 diodes with UF4002
- 180pF silver mica for DEM cap
- Replace Opamps
- Regulators: put LM317 (on small veroboard) at +5V power pins of DAC and filter (in place of supply resistor), LM337 at -5V and -15V power pins of DAC. Attach sizable heatsink to LM317 at filter.
- Maybe put in LM7805/7905 at decoder just to get its noise from the main rail?
Any remarks here? I'm especially curious if 100uF is fine for all the bypass caps instead of 470uF.
Later on I will replace the LM317/337 at the DAC/filter with separate PSU + TPR. I know how to do that thanks to all the information in this thread. The final step would be a clock upgrade but I'm a bit clueless on that one.
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Well, in my humble opinion you are on the right way!
Here are my comments based on what I have done in some Marantz CD40/50/60 (for me, my brother and my friends):
Replace all lytic bypass caps: ALL of them!
DAC/decoder/filter/ - try 150uf or 220uf (max) - Rubycon ZA (200h of burning time), Sanyo Oscon, Rubycon ZL (of course you know that the best for digital rails is Black Gate NX - the red ones, acts like silk in the sound)!
Opamps: try 470uf Elna black cerafines, Rubycon ZL or Panasonic FC;
Replace prereg lytic caps with higher value: sure!
Postreg caps in PSU: I use 1000uf Nippon KZH
For DC blocking avoid the Wimas and try one of the best bargain in audio caps: Russian MBM Metalized paper capacitors 0,5uf or 1uf (someone told that with Jensen´s you only get around more 5% in sound !!!) - I have that capacitors in all my CD players, and it sounds like no capacitor!
Replace 1N4002 diodes with UF4002: if you are able to get BYV1100 1A 100V 10ns, try that super fast diodes!
180pF (120pf) silver mica for DEM cap: instead try the DEM mod in the pic attached;
Replace Opamps for tubes 6N2P-EV - if not try the good ones like LME49720HA;
Put LM7805 (or LM317T) at decoder, and in all other chips who runs at 5VDC
And my last advice: do the mods step by step to avoid errors and lethal damages in this great CD player.
Luck and go ahead!
Here are my comments based on what I have done in some Marantz CD40/50/60 (for me, my brother and my friends):
Replace all lytic bypass caps: ALL of them!
DAC/decoder/filter/ - try 150uf or 220uf (max) - Rubycon ZA (200h of burning time), Sanyo Oscon, Rubycon ZL (of course you know that the best for digital rails is Black Gate NX - the red ones, acts like silk in the sound)!
Opamps: try 470uf Elna black cerafines, Rubycon ZL or Panasonic FC;
Replace prereg lytic caps with higher value: sure!
Postreg caps in PSU: I use 1000uf Nippon KZH
For DC blocking avoid the Wimas and try one of the best bargain in audio caps: Russian MBM Metalized paper capacitors 0,5uf or 1uf (someone told that with Jensen´s you only get around more 5% in sound !!!) - I have that capacitors in all my CD players, and it sounds like no capacitor!
Replace 1N4002 diodes with UF4002: if you are able to get BYV1100 1A 100V 10ns, try that super fast diodes!
180pF (120pf) silver mica for DEM cap: instead try the DEM mod in the pic attached;
Replace Opamps for tubes 6N2P-EV - if not try the good ones like LME49720HA;
Put LM7805 (or LM317T) at decoder, and in all other chips who runs at 5VDC
And my last advice: do the mods step by step to avoid errors and lethal damages in this great CD player.
Luck and go ahead!
Attachments
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Thanks for the great tips! I'm also thinking of replacing the ceramic bypass caps with SMD ceramic caps (X7R, 100nF) closer to the chips, though I may just start with through-hole ceramic caps, don't want to risk frying the chips.
I might stick with 100uF for most lytic bypass caps since the price difference is pretty big (€0.30 per 100uF vs €0.60 for 220uF). I'll make an exception for the postreg caps in the PSU. Unfortunately the only options for audio grade caps at Mouser are Nichicon Muse and Elna Silmic II but from what I've read Nichicon FG seems like the best choice for my taste anyway.
Any low-priced alternatives for the DC blocking caps? I should probably just get rid of them, my amp has DC blocking at the inputs anyway.
That DEM mod looks interesting, I'll give it a try!
Almost ready to order
I might stick with 100uF for most lytic bypass caps since the price difference is pretty big (€0.30 per 100uF vs €0.60 for 220uF). I'll make an exception for the postreg caps in the PSU. Unfortunately the only options for audio grade caps at Mouser are Nichicon Muse and Elna Silmic II but from what I've read Nichicon FG seems like the best choice for my taste anyway.
Any low-priced alternatives for the DC blocking caps? I should probably just get rid of them, my amp has DC blocking at the inputs anyway.
That DEM mod looks interesting, I'll give it a try!
Almost ready to order
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Not with the right power supply and decoupling
That is what I found. My CD-94 had a pair of 100uF power supply caps in each of the two stages with stock 5534 op-amps. All I did was remove the two caps from the output stage. There was much greater clarity and life in the low to mid registers and not nearly the irritating top end. Removing both pairs of caps killed this.
I am not convinced about the necessity of the LME49 series op-amps yet. However, I can see that doing so would result in added bandwidth and slew rate. From my experience there can be serious issues with the interface between a DAC and first op-amp connected as an inverting amplifier with a summing junction. In some configurations I have used the LM7171 op-amp with 7000V/usec slew rates to try to keep up.
In the case of the Marantz CD-94 the input to the op-amp was slowed. The trace was cut between the DAC and the negative terminal of the op-amp with a simple inductor inserted. I wound 10 turns of magnet wire around a 3/8" rod, pulled it off the rod, cleaned the ends and attached it between the cut traces. After installation it was pulled apart as sounding best. It seems to work better if the windings are not tightly compacted. It may be that the inter winding capacitance may become too great, being then capacitive coupled of high speed to the DAC, defeating the purpose, I am not sure.
On the 5534's there is much better clarity, detail and control. Bear in mind the CD-94 was converted to NOS mode. Perhaps the 5534 needs more pre-filtering given the higher amplitude steps in that mode.
Not yet. The pair left around the input pair of op-amps connected to the DAC are still 100uF with the main supply located near the discrete regulators left at 470uF. I tried larger values with better bass extension but sacrificed the dynamics in the mid-range and oddly also lost the weight in vocals.
The capacitors are critical in the supplies and I wouldn't be able to tell you what values are best. Experiment with taking them out at various locations and see what happens. Things can get better or worse.
The player had Elna Cerefine's. I tried the low impedance HM and ultra low impedance HZ Nichicon's. They weren't impressive. I also tried 100uF Elna Silmic's in place of the 470uF's. Strange character and seemingly too small a value to carry the weight of the vocals. Lots of experiments to try including some Black Gate's once I find the mate to the one I have.
As a victim of curiosity I did order some LME49710's to try them out.
Shouldn't you avoid low ESR electrolytics at analog rails postreg? Could be the reason it didn't sound that great, I'm not sure.
See this post.
These ESR readings are pretty interesting. 100uF Nichicon FG caps seem to have pretty low ESR as well, while Nichicon FW has higher ESR. I think I'll order a bunch of 100uF FG and 220/470uF FW caps so I can compare which I like best at the analog rails.
See this post.
These ESR readings are pretty interesting. 100uF Nichicon FG caps seem to have pretty low ESR as well, while Nichicon FW has higher ESR. I think I'll order a bunch of 100uF FG and 220/470uF FW caps so I can compare which I like best at the analog rails.
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Just ordered all the parts I need, enough for all 4 of my Philips CD players (CD610, CD620, CD471, CD710). Went with Nichicon HE (+ Panasonic TSUP 22000uF) for the PSU, FW 470uF for postreg PSU caps, FG 220uF for analog decoupling and Nichicon NS 100uF (similar to Oscon) for digital decoupling (couldn't find reasonably priced 150-220uF polymer caps that were in stock unfortunately). Also got a bunch of inductors and ferrite beads to replace the chip supply resistors. For DC blocking Panasonic polypropylene caps (4.7uF) to replace bipolar caps (in one of my players), Silmic II to replace polarised caps in all the other players. I'll probably remove the DC blocking caps eventually. I also got the necessary components to make a couple LM317/LM337 regs which I will try on the SAA7220 and DAC. Also got the components for the DEM mod in all players.
Opamps will be my last upgrade. I don't want to risk oscillation which I couldn't check since I don't have a scope. Plus I want to see how all the other components improve sound without different opamps. Either way, from what I've read NE5532, LF353 and TL072 are the safest to replace LM833 without being able to check with a scope?
Opamps will be my last upgrade. I don't want to risk oscillation which I couldn't check since I don't have a scope. Plus I want to see how all the other components improve sound without different opamps. Either way, from what I've read NE5532, LF353 and TL072 are the safest to replace LM833 without being able to check with a scope?
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