Hi marce,
The article:Comparing Electrolytic capacitors
I wrote an article about comparing various capacitors in power supply putted before regulators. Each capacitor affects the sound.
The article:Comparing Electrolytic capacitors
Last edited:
Sorry, but decoupling capacitors dont affect the sound and if they do your circuits wrong!
At the end of the day the supply is supposed to supply DC for the active circuit, so if your DC is effecting the sound !!!
At the end of the day the supply is supposed to supply DC for the active circuit, so if your DC is effecting the sound !!!
Hi marce,
Let's return to constructive discussion...
Like an audio system has the sound of its worst audio equipment. Any active device could not sounds better from its own environment. Thinking any active device (or something else) can be independent from its environment is reductive and simplistic. This kind of considerations depends, of course, of the quality level that you want to reach.
You can find in LTC6655's datasheet from Linear Technology, some consideration about capacitors used for decoupling reference tension.
quote:
"For very low noise applications where every nanovolt counts, film capacitors should be considered for their low noise and lack of piezoelectric effects. Film capacitors such as polyester, polystyrene, polycarbonate, and polypropylene have good temperature stability. Additional care must be taken as polystyrene and polypropylene have an upper temperature limit of 85°C to 105°C."
LTC6655 datasheet
LTC6655 - bandgap voltage references, low noise: 0.25ppmP-P (0.1Hz to 10Hz) 625nVP-P for the LTC6655-2.5...
Or perhaps, your design never reaches this high accuracy level 😉
Let's return to constructive discussion...
Like an audio system has the sound of its worst audio equipment. Any active device could not sounds better from its own environment. Thinking any active device (or something else) can be independent from its environment is reductive and simplistic. This kind of considerations depends, of course, of the quality level that you want to reach.
You can find in LTC6655's datasheet from Linear Technology, some consideration about capacitors used for decoupling reference tension.
quote:
"For very low noise applications where every nanovolt counts, film capacitors should be considered for their low noise and lack of piezoelectric effects. Film capacitors such as polyester, polystyrene, polycarbonate, and polypropylene have good temperature stability. Additional care must be taken as polystyrene and polypropylene have an upper temperature limit of 85°C to 105°C."
LTC6655 datasheet
LTC6655 - bandgap voltage references, low noise: 0.25ppmP-P (0.1Hz to 10Hz) 625nVP-P for the LTC6655-2.5...
Interesting. This block diagram isn't to find on the associated datasheet and I have never seen before.
From where you have get it?
That datasheet was talking about output capacitors for voltage references, not decoupling.
By using any physically large cap, you're trading off inductance and ESR.
By using any physically large cap, you're trading off inductance and ESR.
I'm sorry but I still have to disagree, it is a power supply and as such if designed properly will not effect the sound. It is or should be DC, not modulated in any way apart from a bit of ripple current!
"Or perhaps, your design never reaches this high accuracy level", ha the subjective design equivilent of "your system isn't revealing enough".😀
Consider my problem with DC and especially decoupling capacitors affecting the sound, I have worked on numerous analogue boards over the years and apart from the usual considerations for choosing capacitors, I have never had an engineer notice diffenreneces in the analogue outputs because of capacitor brand, also with numerous analogue\digital designs, again output has been unaffected by cap choice, as long as good engineering practice has been followed in selecting the decoupling values esr esl etc.
As to level of accuracy, I cant comment as we have always used scopes and such like to determine accuracy.😡
"Or perhaps, your design never reaches this high accuracy level", ha the subjective design equivilent of "your system isn't revealing enough".😀
Consider my problem with DC and especially decoupling capacitors affecting the sound, I have worked on numerous analogue boards over the years and apart from the usual considerations for choosing capacitors, I have never had an engineer notice diffenreneces in the analogue outputs because of capacitor brand, also with numerous analogue\digital designs, again output has been unaffected by cap choice, as long as good engineering practice has been followed in selecting the decoupling values esr esl etc.
As to level of accuracy, I cant comment as we have always used scopes and such like to determine accuracy.😡
Marce...
Really! Power supply will not affect the sound. Are you serious? In every case where I have ever changed a power supply the sound has been affected.
My understanding is that power supplies get modulated by what they are powering. and this applies all the way back through the transformer and into the AC cable as well.
If you only trust measurements, you should be able to measure this as well.
In an ideal world, power supplies would be pure DC, with no noise, and no ripple, and no modulation. Unfortunately, this is seldom (never) the case.
Really! Power supply will not affect the sound. Are you serious? In every case where I have ever changed a power supply the sound has been affected.
My understanding is that power supplies get modulated by what they are powering. and this applies all the way back through the transformer and into the AC cable as well.
If you only trust measurements, you should be able to measure this as well.
In an ideal world, power supplies would be pure DC, with no noise, and no ripple, and no modulation. Unfortunately, this is seldom (never) the case.
The power supply _IS_ the main "signal path", in, for example, an audio power amplifier. The "small signal" audio input signal path STOPS, at the high-power components. The output current comes _directly_ through the power supply, then through the high-power components, and goes to the outputs. The small-signal voltage only CONTROLS the power supply currrent that goes to the outputs.
The power supply VOLTAGE might theoretically be unchanging DC (possibly with some magnitude of rectification-induced voltage ripple), but the power supply CURRENT is modulated to be the output current, by the high-power components.
It seems quite easy to imagine decoupling capacitors placed at the high-power components' DC supply points having an effect on the output sound, since they will supply parts of the transient and time-varying output currents that the power supply will be called-upon to let flow through the high-power components.
I realize that this thread is not about an audio power amplifier, per se. But the example above clarifies some ideas about the roles of DC power supplies and decoupling capacitors that could apply, to some degree, to many audio and other circuits.
The power supply VOLTAGE might theoretically be unchanging DC (possibly with some magnitude of rectification-induced voltage ripple), but the power supply CURRENT is modulated to be the output current, by the high-power components.
It seems quite easy to imagine decoupling capacitors placed at the high-power components' DC supply points having an effect on the output sound, since they will supply parts of the transient and time-varying output currents that the power supply will be called-upon to let flow through the high-power components.
I realize that this thread is not about an audio power amplifier, per se. But the example above clarifies some ideas about the roles of DC power supplies and decoupling capacitors that could apply, to some degree, to many audio and other circuits.
Last edited:
check out in this case the approach and images of this commercial DAC:
One of German's most ultimate DAC: Horch "STEPS 1" - Schematic wanted
One of German's most ultimate DAC: Horch "STEPS 1" - Schematic wanted
Example...
Note that Ayre Acoustics uses very high quality film capacitors for the decoupling of the power supply rails (and lots of them) in their Reference Series amplifiers. this is a very expensive proposition, so they clearly believe that the supply rails are critical to sound quality.
Note that Ayre Acoustics uses very high quality film capacitors for the decoupling of the power supply rails (and lots of them) in their Reference Series amplifiers. this is a very expensive proposition, so they clearly believe that the supply rails are critical to sound quality.