Sorry, I personally have no answer...
This mod may bring improvements, but the price is quite high and they will use anyway an old now Oppo model... With the same investment, and if you are willing to wait a little bit more, you can get the most advanced new model of Oppo`s players 105. The 103 model is already on market. But both 93 and 103 are the lite version of a player...
The 105 model have some real improvements, but I have for the moment some reserves about the audio stage... It can come some informations after the firsts review, or impressions from the first owners... This model it may be out in to the end of the year...
My advice is to do a wider research and analyse a little bit more the marked before the final decision.
Hi folks (and Joe Rasmussen)!
I think to "pay back" to Joe for his advice to use an SAW oscillator to clock ESS9018. The 125Mhz SAW oscillate like a charm and the beautiful sound is coming out of Sabre chip...
But Joe and others, you may try to battery power the oscillator for ESS9018...
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/196474-ess9018-try-new-try-more-17.html
What about to apply this "treatment" to the 25Mhz oscillator for main processor in BDP95... (and soon in BDP105)? It must for sure be try it...
I think to "pay back" to Joe for his advice to use an SAW oscillator to clock ESS9018. The 125Mhz SAW oscillate like a charm and the beautiful sound is coming out of Sabre chip...
But Joe and others, you may try to battery power the oscillator for ESS9018...
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/196474-ess9018-try-new-try-more-17.html
What about to apply this "treatment" to the 25Mhz oscillator for main processor in BDP95... (and soon in BDP105)? It must for sure be try it...
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I think to show you all how it look inside to the transport used in BDP95...
I will come back soon with something more about a mod in this area. The whole control electronics are on the main board of the player. Inside are only the servo devices/controls for the laser and so...
I will come back soon with something more about a mod in this area. The whole control electronics are on the main board of the player. Inside are only the servo devices/controls for the laser and so...
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My thanks to everyone who has put so much hard work into improving their Oppo players.
I wonder if anyone could decribe the final sound produced by their modifications?
My experience with the Oppo BDP-95 is that it has a rather cold but spacious sound. By this I mean that in comparision with my previous Marantz CDP-65SE into an Assemblage (Sonic Frontiers) DAC, the sound of the Oppo is more detailed and spacious, much quicker, but also lacks bass and midrange presence. The balance of the sound is skewed toward the treble range.
My past experience with upgrading audio components would tell me that this would be due to a number of ceramic capacitors in the signal path, though the Oppo lacks the tizzy, fatiqueing sound I usually associate with those components. I will admit the extended treble of the electrostatic speakers I use probably compounds this problem.I confess I have been reluctant to open up my Oppo until its warranty expires. Has anyone experimented with upgrading coupling or shunt capacitors with better film types to achieve a more neutral sound balance?
I am surprised to hear forum posters speak of increasing the detail retrieval of the Oppo as it already strikes me as a very detailed component already.
Is the 125Mhz SAW type oscillator a drop-in improvement or must it be mounted on a kluge pcb?
Myself, I am impressed with Coris's skill with surface mount components. I have seen Bob Carver himself solder up prototype circuilts which looked more like 3D sculptures than a finished pcb. Only after he worked out all the bugs would he have a pcb made.
I'm surprised to hear that upgrading the ancient 5532 op-amps has such little effect on the sound of the player. I remember doing the Walt Jung Pooge 4 mods to my old Magnavox player and the extraordinary improvement in speed and detail which they provided. In this case the 5532 I/V and Output amps were changed to Video op-amps driving a current buffer output. With the linear-phase reconstruction filter, the sound rivaled my Linn record player. Most impressive. I would have it today if it hadn't been stolen.
Thanks for a most stimulating forum.
I wonder if anyone could decribe the final sound produced by their modifications?
My experience with the Oppo BDP-95 is that it has a rather cold but spacious sound. By this I mean that in comparision with my previous Marantz CDP-65SE into an Assemblage (Sonic Frontiers) DAC, the sound of the Oppo is more detailed and spacious, much quicker, but also lacks bass and midrange presence. The balance of the sound is skewed toward the treble range.
My past experience with upgrading audio components would tell me that this would be due to a number of ceramic capacitors in the signal path, though the Oppo lacks the tizzy, fatiqueing sound I usually associate with those components. I will admit the extended treble of the electrostatic speakers I use probably compounds this problem.I confess I have been reluctant to open up my Oppo until its warranty expires. Has anyone experimented with upgrading coupling or shunt capacitors with better film types to achieve a more neutral sound balance?
I am surprised to hear forum posters speak of increasing the detail retrieval of the Oppo as it already strikes me as a very detailed component already.
Is the 125Mhz SAW type oscillator a drop-in improvement or must it be mounted on a kluge pcb?
Myself, I am impressed with Coris's skill with surface mount components. I have seen Bob Carver himself solder up prototype circuilts which looked more like 3D sculptures than a finished pcb. Only after he worked out all the bugs would he have a pcb made.
I'm surprised to hear that upgrading the ancient 5532 op-amps has such little effect on the sound of the player. I remember doing the Walt Jung Pooge 4 mods to my old Magnavox player and the extraordinary improvement in speed and detail which they provided. In this case the 5532 I/V and Output amps were changed to Video op-amps driving a current buffer output. With the linear-phase reconstruction filter, the sound rivaled my Linn record player. Most impressive. I would have it today if it hadn't been stolen.
Thanks for a most stimulating forum.
Is not easy to describe by text a sound and all the subjective impressions beside...
I just listen now this Oppo player (hardly modified...), with an 125Mhz oscillator (to clock ESS9018) powered from pure DC from a battery. How can be described something like this? Are played some cool jazz CDs recorded in DXD... I never heard something more real, clear, detailed and with huge volume in the sound stage...
About the SAW oscillator (an SMD monolith component), it is placed /soldered very near the DAC chip (as to be seen in one picture here). Is not necessary any extra PCB for it.
Oppo should included in the original design... But they did not came so far...
Maybe one should ask: why Oppo, and not any other player from so many on the market? It were my earlier choice (after a quite long research) because it have inside this fantastic DAC ESS9018. Once I bought it, and (of course) open it, I`ve seen so many wrong thing, that I wandered how it works at last... and it were actually one of the few which at a lower price could offer enough for that price, comparing with another manufacturer...
Anyway, I`m glad to see that few important thing which it were criticised here, were implemented in the new model BDP105. But it still enough again to be improved...
I still too, waiting for feedback/impressions from another ones who did theirs own improvements to this type of player...
I just listen now this Oppo player (hardly modified...), with an 125Mhz oscillator (to clock ESS9018) powered from pure DC from a battery. How can be described something like this? Are played some cool jazz CDs recorded in DXD... I never heard something more real, clear, detailed and with huge volume in the sound stage...
About the SAW oscillator (an SMD monolith component), it is placed /soldered very near the DAC chip (as to be seen in one picture here). Is not necessary any extra PCB for it.
Oppo should included in the original design... But they did not came so far...
Maybe one should ask: why Oppo, and not any other player from so many on the market? It were my earlier choice (after a quite long research) because it have inside this fantastic DAC ESS9018. Once I bought it, and (of course) open it, I`ve seen so many wrong thing, that I wandered how it works at last... and it were actually one of the few which at a lower price could offer enough for that price, comparing with another manufacturer...
Anyway, I`m glad to see that few important thing which it were criticised here, were implemented in the new model BDP105. But it still enough again to be improved...
I still too, waiting for feedback/impressions from another ones who did theirs own improvements to this type of player...
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Now is done! The 25Mhz main oscillator in my BDP95 is powered from battery...
I have to say that I use an Connor-Winfield’s D75F (Cmos) oscillator with an integrated jitter of 0,5 ps.
The improvement in the picture is very high. The details and gradients are so, that I couldn`t even think it is possible. The depth in static HD pictures is obviously now.
Is just amazing how all the electronics can works, when the noise is gone from the system ( at least an important part of it induced by powering the device, and in this case in the clock of the main processor).
About sound? Is difficult to find the words. Increasing in details of the sound is huge. The speakers are gone, but only the instruments are in the room and generate the pure sounds, with unbelievable details...
Very surprising result!
But even more surprisingly is that the player is much more responsive. It act more quick in general, even when is to open files... I just do not know how to explain this.
I really think now that pure DC (battery) powering for those oscillators, which clock the system, is the key of a very high performance of the device.
Is enough amazing how, when that extremely low noise produced by low noise regulators is all gone, the increasing in the target device performances is just huge.
A very interesting experience!
I have to say that I use an Connor-Winfield’s D75F (Cmos) oscillator with an integrated jitter of 0,5 ps.
The improvement in the picture is very high. The details and gradients are so, that I couldn`t even think it is possible. The depth in static HD pictures is obviously now.
Is just amazing how all the electronics can works, when the noise is gone from the system ( at least an important part of it induced by powering the device, and in this case in the clock of the main processor).
About sound? Is difficult to find the words. Increasing in details of the sound is huge. The speakers are gone, but only the instruments are in the room and generate the pure sounds, with unbelievable details...
Very surprising result!
But even more surprisingly is that the player is much more responsive. It act more quick in general, even when is to open files... I just do not know how to explain this.
I really think now that pure DC (battery) powering for those oscillators, which clock the system, is the key of a very high performance of the device.
Is enough amazing how, when that extremely low noise produced by low noise regulators is all gone, the increasing in the target device performances is just huge.
A very interesting experience!
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I bet, and know where you are coming from.
BUT: A battery is not even the best to use - there are things better than batteries.
The biggest problem is Ultra-Low-Frequency Noise on that 3.3V Pin. Even here batteries are not the best.
Right now I use a power supply on both oscillators that are tuned to below 5-milionth of a Hertz.
There is only one person I know who have measured the effects of ULF noise in digital playback, Paul Miller in the UK. But another example is the Atomic Clock used by Esoteric, this is because it is immune to ULF noise - and that is the reason Robert Harley flipped when he heard it - not because it was Atomic as such - it was the absence or suppresion of ULF noise getting into the DAC upstream via the Clock's power supply.
So I know exactly the kind of improvements you describe and I suspect the Oppo 95 here would be even better, as hard as that might be to believe. The solution is better than even battery. The Oppo 95 I have here and the "JLTi Level 2" I have done for clients, is the BEST digital playback that I have ever heard by a large margin. A huge margin. The Oppo 95 is potentially that kind of a beast - and best digital value of ALL time.
BUT...
I am looking for a SAW solution for the 25MHz - unfortunately the lowest SAW frequency is 50MHz available right now (I have looked far and wide). So it occurs to me that a IC solution that can halve the output frequency from 50MHz to 25MHz might be worth it. And in your case also battery operate it.
Any thoughts what might be a good solution to try?
Cheers, Joe R.
It may be better ways to power the devices, but the battery it may be (in this case) the best improvements/simplicity ratio so far...
Now I`ve just experienced that not even a sophisticated clock oscillator with good jitter figures which is the most important, but the "silence" of the power which it goes to that oscillator... It seems that no mater how better an electronic regulator it may be, it produce noises anyway and this disturb very much the clocked system. The battery is a very independent power source, which is not disturbed of anything in the system, but only something which it may be induced in its body or in the connection wires. This is quite easy to prevent.
About Oppo player as overall I can say that I`m not impressed at all. It has a quite solid digital stage. The software/firmware, too. This is true. Maybe the transport is good too, but this is a part of the digital stage as well. The rest is a quite a joke (unfortunately), except the using of ESS9018 in the design. Using such advanced audio DAC and do not care much of quite simple things as transformers, power supplies and another analogue design aspects, it may remove all the benefits of an ESS9018 design...
This machine it need huge modifications to work at its best (as described here...). So I can not see the merit of Oppo in making this player to act as a very high end device. Is the merit of the modders...
The new Oppo model (BDP105) is even worse in the analogue stage, but even better in the digital one... Is quite strange that they have two design developing teams which are so opposite different in thinking, implementing and results.
But anyway, the modders may have some jobs too. Right?
I had the same thought about a lower frequency SAW device... But not so much to be done in this field. Is only to be divided the 50Mhz to 25... But then, the noise, the jitter... I intentioned to try it this way, but is to much work for an uncertain result...
You may try this oscillator I use for moment. Quite good figures and only few mA it take on power pin.... I had actually a big improvement only by changing the original with this one (and added an ultra low noise regulator). With battery power, the result is just jumping up in the sky...
Until my batteries will discharge completely, I may find a way to manage those and charge it. It may not be very complicated. I`m a little bit frustrated because I can not use the management circuits which are already included in it. I couldn`t find yet the "rest" to use those integrated circuits in the batteries...
Now I`ve just experienced that not even a sophisticated clock oscillator with good jitter figures which is the most important, but the "silence" of the power which it goes to that oscillator... It seems that no mater how better an electronic regulator it may be, it produce noises anyway and this disturb very much the clocked system. The battery is a very independent power source, which is not disturbed of anything in the system, but only something which it may be induced in its body or in the connection wires. This is quite easy to prevent.
About Oppo player as overall I can say that I`m not impressed at all. It has a quite solid digital stage. The software/firmware, too. This is true. Maybe the transport is good too, but this is a part of the digital stage as well. The rest is a quite a joke (unfortunately), except the using of ESS9018 in the design. Using such advanced audio DAC and do not care much of quite simple things as transformers, power supplies and another analogue design aspects, it may remove all the benefits of an ESS9018 design...
This machine it need huge modifications to work at its best (as described here...). So I can not see the merit of Oppo in making this player to act as a very high end device. Is the merit of the modders...
The new Oppo model (BDP105) is even worse in the analogue stage, but even better in the digital one... Is quite strange that they have two design developing teams which are so opposite different in thinking, implementing and results.
But anyway, the modders may have some jobs too. Right?
I had the same thought about a lower frequency SAW device... But not so much to be done in this field. Is only to be divided the 50Mhz to 25... But then, the noise, the jitter... I intentioned to try it this way, but is to much work for an uncertain result...
You may try this oscillator I use for moment. Quite good figures and only few mA it take on power pin.... I had actually a big improvement only by changing the original with this one (and added an ultra low noise regulator). With battery power, the result is just jumping up in the sky...
Until my batteries will discharge completely, I may find a way to manage those and charge it. It may not be very complicated. I`m a little bit frustrated because I can not use the management circuits which are already included in it. I couldn`t find yet the "rest" to use those integrated circuits in the batteries...
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In my opinion, powering an whole device/player or so, by battery is not efficient at all. The digital stages inside the machine will produce the same amount of noise as when it should be powered as usually from the wall. Is like one would power a whole computer from battery, and expect to have a very high fidelity in the audio stage because this... Just no way to do like this!
The battery power may be applied there where the noise is very critical for the further stages. As is the case of a oscillator used to clock a system... or the video processor chip, or the DAC chip, and so on... In some cases it may be inefficient to power an whole chip, because of to much current needed, fast discharge rate of the battery, the need of an regulator after that battery, and so on... So, it may be appreciated carefully where is to use battery power and where is not...
Of course is not any reasonable way to use a battery and have after it an electronic regulator... It may be stupid like this, I suppose.
When the device it not need much current, its tension on power is near to the battery used, and the discharge rate of the battery is very slowly, do not alter the device functions and parameters, then is quite easy to make it. It seems that it works very well to power only those clock oscillators from battery, and the rest of the devices as usually from transformers, regulators, etc.
The battery power may be applied there where the noise is very critical for the further stages. As is the case of a oscillator used to clock a system... or the video processor chip, or the DAC chip, and so on... In some cases it may be inefficient to power an whole chip, because of to much current needed, fast discharge rate of the battery, the need of an regulator after that battery, and so on... So, it may be appreciated carefully where is to use battery power and where is not...
Of course is not any reasonable way to use a battery and have after it an electronic regulator... It may be stupid like this, I suppose.
When the device it not need much current, its tension on power is near to the battery used, and the discharge rate of the battery is very slowly, do not alter the device functions and parameters, then is quite easy to make it. It seems that it works very well to power only those clock oscillators from battery, and the rest of the devices as usually from transformers, regulators, etc.
you misunderstand, the regulator/limiter in the battery is a switching device, also lion and lipo are higher noise than lifepo4, many have regulators that are in circuit the whole time. also having a post battery regulator is not a bad thing if you make a proper regulator, it still removes ground, which is the main reason to use a battery for a clock IMO
Connor-Winfields you may find at Digikey (UK dept. maybe...) They have lot of such. There is a "problem" with those Connor-Winfields oscillators: ones with very low jitter (0,2 - 1 ps) are made in to the 27Mhz range, and few of those work on low current (max 6mA). The other ones for quite high frequencies do not have similar parameters, and need higher currents (40 - 90mA)... So, is not easy to use only this type to mod accordingly. SAW for high frequency, and this Connor-Winfields for lower (in my case)...
The battery, yes is rechargeable of course. One may not take the battery out to recharge it... The relay used to start up the oscillator will do the job to recharge the battery when the player is off... The rest is only about wires...
I used in this case an 1,6A/h mobile phone battery. But for sure it works any other one. Those made for cellphones are quite small and fit better in place... The higher the capacity, the better working time... When is about low currents, one can use an resistor divider to control more precise the tension and current through the oscillator. When about more needed current, then help only a limiter resistor (which lower the tension too). Calculate and experiment (simulate with resistors) first, before connect the oscillator to the battery.
Nice if you will come back with your impressions and results...
I also thought at this aspect too... But after I`ve done this experiment, I can say that I have no any problem. The improvements are obviously, no matter that (supposing connected) management circuit. Maybe somebody else can try with another battery cells which do not have such inside... and report the results.
It may be possible that that circuit is not connected to the battery when is not in the phone (it have 4 pins, two for power). That discharge controller may be in the phone, and the battery may include only the informations part... It may be possible that those cellphones battery are not made similar to another ones Li-Ion power battery. It is not very much place in those... This is not very sure for the moment, but in this case it works very well.
Maybe one may do further a better research on this aspect, but at last it works much better with the phone battery as it is, than as with the low noise regulator...
BTW, I did not removed the GND connection from the oscillator. Both the oscillator and the battery are connected to the same GND (clock GND) with the rest of the circuits on that board... The ground is common always, as it should be. For me is quite clear that that extremely low noise which disturb the oscillator/clock, and degrade further the target circuit performances, it came through power rail, not on ground plane.
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To clarify this aspect about a possible circuit connected inside a phone battery, maybe someone will want to open a such battery and show the pictures here (to qusp...). I do not have either a good one or defective battery at the moment.
It make more sense to me that such phone batteries connect the eventual chip inside to the phone, when it is inserted/connected in place. If is a chip there then it may be something which measure the temperature, all the rest may be in the phone power system. Those batteries are dedicated to be used in that type of the phone it belong to, and not for something else... Another types of such Li-Ion powerful batteries, which it can be connected to motors, or everything else, are protected with specialised circuits, to prevent damages, explosion, fire, etc.
Is fully unreasonable to have in those phone batteries something which it may draw the energy out when the battery is not connected to the phone. I just had those batteries I use now in Oppo, fully charged over a long time, and the tension level were not changed ever...
I think it may not be necessary more arguments to justify the use of phone batteries for such purposes. They work just fine! But I insist to recommend using of an (pico)fuse in between battery and the rest.
It make more sense to me that such phone batteries connect the eventual chip inside to the phone, when it is inserted/connected in place. If is a chip there then it may be something which measure the temperature, all the rest may be in the phone power system. Those batteries are dedicated to be used in that type of the phone it belong to, and not for something else... Another types of such Li-Ion powerful batteries, which it can be connected to motors, or everything else, are protected with specialised circuits, to prevent damages, explosion, fire, etc.
Is fully unreasonable to have in those phone batteries something which it may draw the energy out when the battery is not connected to the phone. I just had those batteries I use now in Oppo, fully charged over a long time, and the tension level were not changed ever...
I think it may not be necessary more arguments to justify the use of phone batteries for such purposes. They work just fine! But I insist to recommend using of an (pico)fuse in between battery and the rest.
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