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Old 10th October 2011, 09:07 PM   #81
Coris is offline Coris  Norway
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100 Mhz main clock (core processor) in BDP95!

I had to try it... And is working. At last not all... but is working!
It seems that the main processor accept well a such clock frequency. What is interesting is that the processor do not get warm more that with an 25Mhz clock.
BUT... at this frequency does not function the Blue-Ray player (transport), and does not function SATA interface...
What is working? Well is working very well the USB interface. What is connected there is recognized. On this interface everything is working! Music files, pictures files, and video files... There is a very big improvement when playing video files (HD) at this clock frequency (100Mhz). Resolution of the picture is huge, no any visible noise on the picture, and the movements are very, very smooth. It is a very big visual pleasure to watch a video file played in this conditions.
The sound? Is a big improvement here too. The sound stage become wider, and it seems that the dynamic also increase with this clock. Everything become better... Much better.

I`ve tried with a 50Mhz clock. Exactly the same functionality. Only on USB. This make me think that here is about software/firmware. It is very possible that Oppo have write the firmware and programmed all based exclusively on a 25Mhz clock. Why they did not tried a higher clock frequency is a mystery. The hardware (I mean the main processor) can very well 100Mhz, and everything goes up in quality.

Maybe we can have a better software/firmware from Oppo for be possible to use an f. ex. 100Mhz main clock. Or maybe they can come with a comment/explanation about this...
I`ve used an 100Mhz Crystek oscillator.

Last edited by Coris; 10th October 2011 at 09:09 PM.
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Old 13th October 2011, 05:01 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coris View Post
I
Not at least a big improvement in sound. The same, more details and wider sound stage. More volume in the sound. Is hard to define... The clearness of every single sound is astonish.
Thanks Coris, this confirms what I've heard here, that for best performance both clocks needs to be done.

I can also give you this tip, keep ultra-low frequency noise out of that 3.3V supply, and that also applies to clock on the Sabre DAC.

Why doing both clocks seems to improve things for an audio perspective, is not clear, at all. On paper only the 54MHz (or alternative freq) should need it?

But this was confirmed on the upgrades we did to the Yamaha CD-S1000 & S2000 players, which have two clocks as well, a front-end clock and a DAC clock. Also benefited from doing both.

Cheers, Joe R.
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Old 13th October 2011, 05:07 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coris View Post
100 Mhz main clock (core processor) in BDP95!
I had to try it... And is working. At last not all... but is working!
It seems that the main processor accept well a such clock frequency. What is interesting is that the processor do not get warm more that with an 25Mhz clock.
I doubt you will get any info from Oppo. Like many US based companies, they can be less than helpful. The fact that you cannot even get a schematic or a service manual, which so many other manufacturers happily supply, is a case in point.

The functionality issue would prevent me from straying from 25MHz here. But the gains in getting that 3.3V super clean down to extreme LF (ultra-stable) will give you greater gains still.

Cheers, Joe
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Old 13th October 2011, 11:25 AM   #84
Coris is offline Coris  Norway
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Why doing both clocks seems to improve things for an audio perspective, is not clear, at all. On paper only the 54MHz (or alternative freq) should need it?

Cheers, Joe R.[/QUOTE]

For me is clear enough why both clocks improve the sound of the player... First, the main clock (25Mhz). It is important that the main processor have a clean as possible clock on it. This mean much less fails to be corrected. The data inside "goes" smoothly, and more efficient if is not so much to be corrected or recovered. It came out a clean data stream with less phase noises... This is beneficial for the further processing in both sound and picture stages. Changing the main clock with a more jitter free and cleaner clock one it lead to improvements in both video and audio.
For the audio - ESS9018 clock is enough evident that a good clock with a higher frequency (in my opinion) leads to an important improvement of the final sound. If it come in to the DAC an better data stream consequence of using a good quality main clock (25Mhz), than everything become very high quality out of this player... Almost at least... because one need to do quite many another mods for have a good quality player... Oppos designers should done this job as well for be a real first one in the marked with an in fact top rated product... But they didn`t... Was only enough for they to work around to have good reviews...
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Old 13th October 2011, 12:17 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by Coris View Post
For me is clear enough why both clocks improve the sound of the player...
Cheers, Joe R.
Try to tell other prople that.

ON the BDP-95, only I and have done the Main Clock, you second and me first.

Maybe others might listen to what's said here and not just do one.

Cheers, Joe R.

PS: Live far from Kongsvinger? I have a brother there.
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Old 13th October 2011, 08:06 PM   #86
Coris is offline Coris  Norway
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Rasmussen View Post
Try to tell other prople that.

ON the BDP-95, only I and have done the Main Clock, you second and me first.

Maybe others might listen to what's said here and not just do one.

Cheers, Joe R.

PS: Live far from Kongsvinger? I have a brother there.
OK!
As your self stated in the beginning of this thread, the pictures you presented about main clock mod, were copied from a French forum... So was another one who did it first...
Anyway, I will not struggle about who was first in this... This is not my point been here.
As I know well, are "mod" companies who did this modification quite long time ago, and they change it the main clock only... They offered/done many another joke changes for good moneys, but they didn`t knew about to change the DACs clock for the best sound improvement in this player...
My previous post reefer and tried to answer to what you was unclear about in post 84...

The point about this forum is not who did it first, but about the information to flow around... for all together benefit.
Is also very true that few who catch the informations here use it for make moneys...

Last edited by Coris; 13th October 2011 at 08:12 PM.
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Old 14th October 2011, 12:14 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coris View Post
OK!
As your self stated in the beginning of this thread, the pictures you presented about main clock mod, were copied from a French forum... So was another one who did it first...
You misunderstand me, I was talking about being first doing, NOT just the 25MHz (that was done a long time ago), but first to do both in the BDP-95.

I don't know anybody else who has done that. but NOW we have put the info out there and it will be heard. So we have done a good thing.

In the BDP-93 you have but no choice to do the single 25MHz Master Clock as it also clocks the CS4382 DAC.

Having said that, the NuForce BDP-93 adds a second clock on the DAC, but they leave the 25MHz untouched.

Cheers, Joe R.
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Last edited by Joe Rasmussen; 14th October 2011 at 12:18 AM.
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Old 14th October 2011, 02:14 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coris View Post
Hi
I`ve used in that place quite normal ceramic capacitors 100/6v.
<SNIP>
If you want to go this "decoupling" way, you may want to do the another important mods before this one. This should be my choice, but you can of course chose another way...
Nice to hear from you about the finally results...
Coris,

Thanks for your response. To be clear and truthful, I am asking about this for a planned set of modifications to a PCI sound card, the ESI Juli@, not the Oppo DVD player.

But with you, Joe, & Ric all posting on this thread, if you'll allow me one more not-quite-on-topic question, what are the pros & cons between using the following different supression/filtering techniques on a digital interface chip setup (not analog, not even the DAC):

1. Large-value (100uf-1000uf) ceramic caps (like Coris & Joe use)

2. Good digital filtering caps like Oscons

3. Good film caps, either SMD or small polypropylene (like Ric's nude Wimas)

4. Small Black Gate caps (Similar to what Peter D & Bobken did to Peter's TDA1543 DAC setup here: Pushing the limits of TDA1543 NOS DAC)

These are the other threads that I saw discussing these techniques (although not all together):

Xonar ST/STX mods...

ESS9018 - try new, try more...

Anybody using the new ESS Vout DAC (ES9022)?

Pushing the limits of TDA1543 NOS DAC

THANKS IN ADVANCE!

Greg in Mississippi
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Old 14th October 2011, 05:07 PM   #89
Coris is offline Coris  Norway
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Originally Posted by Greg Stewart View Post
Coris,

Thanks for your response. To be clear and truthful, I am asking about this for a planned set of modifications to a PCI sound card, the ESI Juli@, not the Oppo DVD player.

But with you, Joe, & Ric all posting on this thread, if you'll allow me one more not-quite-on-topic question, what are the pros & cons between using the following different supression/filtering techniques on a digital interface chip setup (not analog, not even the DAC):

1. Large-value (100uf-1000uf) ceramic caps (like Coris & Joe use)

2. Good digital filtering caps like Oscons

3. Good film caps, either SMD or small polypropylene (like Ric's nude Wimas)

4. Small Black Gate caps (Similar to what Peter D & Bobken did to Peter's TDA1543 DAC setup here: Pushing the limits of TDA1543 NOS DAC)

These are the other threads that I saw discussing these techniques (although not all together):

Xonar ST/STX mods...

ESS9018 - try new, try more...

Anybody using the new ESS Vout DAC (ES9022)?

Pushing the limits of TDA1543 NOS DAC

THANKS IN ADVANCE!

Greg in Mississippi

In my opinion, large decoupling capacity have more "pros" than "cons". But first of all I want to precise that not all kind of capacities are suitable for decoupling. One have to think that a parasitic impedance, or high ESR are bad things when is about decoupling. Specially capacitor`s impedance. This impedance decrease as the caps become smaler and smaler as physical dimensions. There is about the way they are build too. The best of all referring the parameters above are the ceramics. They have no ESR and impedance is also as non existing. There is about frequency range of course here. Then come tantalum type caps. Here are some special build types which minimse the most of their low anyway, parasitic impedance. Their ESR is quite low, but not as of the ceramics.
I want to point here something quite important when talk about large capacities on decoupling. I understand a such capacity which is a result of many small capacities connected/soldered together. This is an important rule about capacitors. Paralleling those components, their parasitic parameters decrease by that paralleling number. Is not any clue to have a quite large capacity which is about only one capacitor. Even is an OSCON... Paralleling electrolytics, oscons or so, follow the same rule, but their physical dimensions become so as they will be unusable. Is a good point to do this in a power supply, but not for decoupling. When is about decoupling, one have to have in mind that the physical dimension of a such capacity have to be as small (physic dim.) as possible, and soldered as closest as possible to the power pins of the target device. Wires mean impedance, and this is very bad allways... This is the point of SMD components. Minimum impedance.
What is intresting is that an ESR value in an decoupling cap, looks like is an benefit it in some cases. A very low ESR (or zero) is not quite good as sound point of view in some cases. Like final op amps stages... So here is better to use tantalum caps. Or a combination... Depends.... But no way for electrolitycs! I do not want to use even oscon...

So, large decoupling capacities means a very low impedance AC point of view of a circuit. The decoupled device "see" an extreme low parasitic impedance on power side. As a consequence of this, their filtering function do the job for a very large/low frequency range. It is possible to go as low as few Hz with an accordingly large capacity. Then come the ability of a such large decoupling cap to store quite much energy. The decoupled device can use that energy at once when needed and almost as much as needed. This is an very big benefit when is about op amps (voltage/current). A quite high slow rate of a device needs very much energy for be as high as datasheet specify. There are today op amps with thousands of volts per s. They can not go so high without the necessary energy/current, and this in s or so... The higher slew rate of an op amp device, the higher the resulting dynamic on output...
The cons can be when about power on/power of sequences... Using large capacitors for decoupling involve precautions when is to charge it at power on, and what is possible to happen with that stored energy at power off... Those have one to have in mind when go this way...

One can experiment self by decoupling an (final) op amp or another device with quite normal capacity, and with a large one. Compare the resulting sound... Do the same with an DAC chip, and compare the results....

When about film caps, I will want to use so in feedback loops, or on the input stage. Some times is a benefit to use film in decoupling...

Now, I think that I`ve wrote enough...

Last edited by Coris; 14th October 2011 at 05:21 PM.
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Old 14th October 2011, 08:45 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Stewart View Post
1. Large-value (100uf-1000uf) ceramic caps (like Coris & Joe use)
Hi Greg

It's not exactly what we use here. More like a servo tuned very low. That way a smaller high quality cap can be used on the oscillator.

But there are no easy answers here, welcome to the world of experimentation.

Cheers, Joe R.
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