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Old 13th August 2003, 02:58 PM   #1
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Question Teeny, Tiny, Microcontrolers.

Hi, I have been searching around now for a couple of days for a suitable micro controler for a project i'm thinking about giving a go. What I was looking for is something very small (at most 10mm X 10mm X 3mm), with an internal oscilator to cut down on parts, and some sort of EEPROM or flash memory available when the device is runnig for storing data (I need at least 1k bytes here, but would prefer if I could get 1Mbytes or more).

Now I have found a couple of possible candidates, one from national, the COP8 line, whihc can meet the size and memory requirements, but have no internal oscilator so isn't realy any good as I will be quite pushed for sapce in this project I think. also, I found a device from ATMEL, the tiny 26L which meets all of the requirements appart form the memory (but they also sell a 2k bit EEPROM in a SOT23 package (3x3mm) which would help with that).

What I was wondering is if anyone here who is more familiar with these sorts of devices could point me in the direction of a similarly small device which will meet or surpass all of my requirements with out using any external components. If you could do that I would much apreciate it.

Andrew.

PS, one thing I forgot to put in is that the device will need to run from battery (~3V) and hence draw very little current.
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Old 13th August 2003, 03:06 PM   #2
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Hello -

We are using a new part from Microchip (PIC) that should meet all of your requirements. It is the PIC16F72 in the QFN package. It's a great part!

Best regards,
Charles Hansen
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Old 13th August 2003, 03:14 PM   #3
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microchip is a great way to experiment as they provide you with the software on their site and also are quite liberal on giving you samples

DIRT®
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Old 13th August 2003, 03:31 PM   #4
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www.atmel.com has also qute MCU's. Check their AVR controllers.

May I ask what demands 1 MB memory at the volume of 300 cubic mm?
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Old 13th August 2003, 10:33 PM   #5
haldor is offline haldor  United States
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Default Re: Teeny, Tiny, Microcontrolers.

Quote:
Originally posted by bigparsnip
Hi, I have been searching around now for a couple of days for a suitable micro controler for a project i'm thinking about giving a go. What I was looking for is something very small (at most 10mm X 10mm X 3mm), with an internal oscilator to cut down on parts, and some sort of EEPROM or flash memory available when the device is runnig for storing data (I need at least 1k bytes here, but would prefer if I could get 1Mbytes or more).

Now I have found a couple of possible candidates, one from national, the COP8 line, whihc can meet the size and memory requirements, but have no internal oscilator so isn't realy any good as I will be quite pushed for sapce in this project I think. also, I found a device from ATMEL, the tiny 26L which meets all of the requirements appart form the memory (but they also sell a 2k bit EEPROM in a SOT23 package (3x3mm) which would help with that).

What I was wondering is if anyone here who is more familiar with these sorts of devices could point me in the direction of a similarly small device which will meet or surpass all of my requirements with out using any external components. If you could do that I would much apreciate it.

Andrew.

PS, one thing I forgot to put in is that the device will need to run from battery (~3V) and hence draw very little current.
The Cygnal parts don't need an external crystal (even for serial communication) and some versions are really small (3 mm x 3 mm). Not the very lowest power consumption though. http://www.cygnal.com/

The TI MSP430 is a really good choice for low power operation. http://focus.ti.com/analog/docs/anal...6&familyId=342

Phil
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Old 14th August 2003, 10:37 AM   #6
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Charles, I have had a quick look at the data sheet for the PIC16F72, but although it mentions setable options for the oscilators, I can't find anything there that mentions the inclusion of a master clock which the device can run from. So I take it that I would need an external ocsilator or crystal (I know on the other PIC devices there are settings to alter the timer oscilators, so I am assuming that that is what the data sheet was refering to) to get this device up and running? Which would be a shame if it is, as I realy would rather have an onboard unit.

As for the others, thanks very much but it looks like I am going to have to settle for one of the ATMEL, or cygnal (thanks haldor) processors, allong with some external flash memory for the time being.

For those of you wondering what this was supposed to be for, I was looking at trying to make a very small data logger (and possibly in the future fit it out with bluetooth wireless comunication, but as of yet, the most prommising product I have found to implement that - from national - has not been compleeted yet) that ran off bateries. Also, if this did work out, I was considering the posibility of producing a very small (pre) amplifier controler, which would be able to fit onto the back of a VFD display, and control a number of devices assuming they all had similarly small control modules tucked away in them somewhere.

But thnks again, and if anone else out there spots this and knows an more then please let me know, as I haven't quite given up searching yet.

Andrew.
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Old 14th August 2003, 10:55 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by bigparsnip
(and possibly in the future fit it out with bluetooth wireless comunication
Bluetooth is really expensive to implement. It starts from 10 kUSD and can cost more. This is if you want to put the BT logo on your product!

Our company has investigated the possibilities and come to the conclusion that this is only suitable for mass market or non-low cost.

NOTE: This is only if you want to sell the product. If you only want to fool around it costs you only the BT-modules.
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Old 14th August 2003, 11:20 AM   #8
bocka is offline bocka  Germany
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You should look to the ATMEL MEGA-Series in TQFP, they have an internal osc, EEPROM, low cost development tools, low price, wide supply range,...

And no CE-Problems!

I suggest the MEGA8, MEGA16, MEGA32, MEGA163.
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Old 14th August 2003, 12:22 PM   #9
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Hi Bocka, do you actualy have any experience using the ATMEL range?

I was wondering if the only real difference between the MEGA range and their Tiny range was the number of instructions each chip has (the MEGA being around 130 I believe and the tiny bing about 90)?

If I did go with one of the AVR processors, I think at the moment, I would either chose the ATtiny26L, or the ATMega162V, both of which are available in the MLF package which is only 7 X 7mm, and will operate at low voltages (in fact having looked, I think the mega162 states that it will only consume around 0.6mA when opperating at 1MHz from a 3V supply).

Andrew.
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Old 14th August 2003, 12:35 PM   #10
bocka is offline bocka  Germany
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Hi Andrew,

the large ones also have an ADC, 2 serial ports, a JTAG-Interface. The MEGA162L is an excellent choice, you should simply get some samples from your distri.

I haven't used the MLF package yet. I would use the newer MEGA162L because of the better availability in the future. Some of the old AVRs are not recommended for new designs...

Bocka
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