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Old 26th February 2013, 03:30 AM   #441
qusp is offline qusp  Australia
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is that right? so the constant mentioning of the existence of a product for sale is just incidental yes? so you arent here to do some research on ways to improve your products? you arent deliberately provoking argument to gain information?
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Old 26th February 2013, 06:11 AM   #442
marce is offline marce  United Kingdom
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It's not about the integrity of the signal during transmission, it's about the fact that quality of the signal in terms of how easy it is to process and decode will vary, depending upon everything. Yes, it will always be decoded 100% correctly, but the circuitry doing this work will follow a different pattern of electrical activity while doing the decoding. If you hook up a storage scope or two to all these electricals the behavioural "picture" here will change when something is changed in the transmission path. So, if the analogue side of things is "spooked" in any way by transmission related circuitry functioning, any sort of interference effect, then the sound will change ...
Keep chasing them demons...In precious posts I mentioned using signal integrity simulation, you ought to think about what that is for, and before you all start harping on about simulation, it works, it works very well, and shock horror, I also model scope probes so that we can see what the wave will look like when you load it with a scope (what you see with a scope is a distorion of the real wave, due to scope probe loading) so surprise when engineering an interface it is looked at....so know I do not agree with your statement, if that effect happens it is due to it probably being broken or
2 points: just crap.
1. Why use cheep and chearful if you are after audio nirvana, dosn't compute.
2. If you are after audio nirvana, dont use cheep and ceharful products.

We are on about the ethernet interface, how many ethernet interfaces have you laid out, both on expensive gear and cheep and cheerful gear... They are laid out the same, that is how it works, with anything people wanna plug in, as to the magnetics and high frequecny, how high do you wanna go, think of the spectral content of the ethernet signals....
Scott6113, got a pallet full, will do you a deal, you could be my USA distributor
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Old 26th February 2013, 08:28 AM   #443
fas42 is offline fas42  Australia
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A little confusion here, I'm not saying that the scope changes the behaviour; rather, that a storage scope would record a certain pattern of electrical behaviour over a set time period, on the receiver end, with the transmission path in one configuration; and then changing that configuration, and rerunning the transmission and recording in an identical manner would yield a different pattern of electrical activity. Which alters the interference "signature" ...

You don't have to convince me about simulation, I've gone through 3 packages, over a period of well over a decade, and they've helped me enormously to understand how the interference mechanisms can occur, and to design workarounds ...

Frank

Last edited by fas42; 26th February 2013 at 08:30 AM.
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Old 26th February 2013, 08:51 AM   #444
SY is offline SY  United States
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Originally Posted by marce View Post
Keep chasing them demons...
When you get data rather than repetitive handwaves, then it's worth responding.
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Old 26th February 2013, 09:32 AM   #445
fas42 is offline fas42  Australia
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I agree that "real" data, as in numbers, would be very useful ... trouble is I'm not really in a position to acquire that easily myself at the moment.

A program like Diffmaker I would have thought would be an excellent starting point, I've noted its existence a few times. However, I just looked around a bit more, and this evaluation of the program is not very encouraging: Tests with Audio Diffmaker. This implies that the program is weak in the very areas where it needs to be most sensitive -- analysis of high frequency changes. Anyone aware of countering opinions or evaluations?

Or other tools that would do the job? If all else fails I might have a go at developing something myself, would be an interesting exercise ...

In the meantime I might rely on my ears, they've done an excellent job so far in keeping me on track ...

Frank
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Old 26th February 2013, 09:38 AM   #446
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Originally Posted by qusp View Post
is that right? so the constant mentioning of the existence of a product for sale is just incidental yes? so you arent here to do some research on ways to improve your products? you arent deliberately provoking argument to gain information?
expect sb. like your thinking only mislead to the wrong way.
so, how come to correct crap here from stubborn "engineer" like you(if you are)?

while you do not have the equipments nor well trained ears, how come you could tell the diffference between different network cables...
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Old 26th February 2013, 09:45 AM   #447
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In the meantime I might rely on my ears, they've done an excellent job so far in keeping me on track ...

Frank
one of our customers has a 8G spectroanalyzer, jitter tester, ap ...... and still couldnot find a way out...
ears are the only equipment @ this moment while the theory is not fully covered.
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Old 26th February 2013, 09:56 AM   #448
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[QUOTE=marce;3386442]
We are on about the ethernet interface,[QUOTE]

if you could, just correct information from LINN's user, their machines use Xilinx with PowerPC, and ask their users if network cable makes sense.
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Old 26th February 2013, 10:41 AM   #449
marce is offline marce  United Kingdom
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Frank, no confusion, read what I said, you have to model the scope and use it in the simulation so that what you see on the computer screen is what you will see on the scope screen, because what you see on the scope screen is the waveform with the probe loading.
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Old 26th February 2013, 10:50 AM   #450
marce is offline marce  United Kingdom
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Done plenty of boards with xilinx and power PC for plenty of applications.
If you think that network cables sound different you are wrong wrong wrong wrong, so wrong I cant put it into words, unless you are using wet cotton as your conductor....
I would suggest you go read up on the ethernet interface there is plenty of info out there. Being doing layout for ethernet since 10BASE2.
You quote what others say about it, tell me in your own words how these cables can make a difference to the final sound, ignore noise because in this instance its a red herring.
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