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Old 18th February 2013, 09:58 PM   #231
fas42 is online now fas42  Australia
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Originally Posted by Scott6113 View Post
You're right, I should. I guess I'll never know what he means when he says 'gets cosy' or 'black box'. Or maybe I already do. It means I want to believe.
Among the cognoscenti it's known as humour, or, lightness of touch. Last time I looked around here I couldn't find the declarations that postings on this forum were to be considered in the same light as articles in 'Nature' or 'New Scientist' ...

But, speaking of 'black boxes', that's how engineers and scientists are prone to thinking: everything in its own cuddly place, and never the twain shall meet. If something is digital it cannot display attributes that others would call analogue, and vice versa. Deconstruct the system into compartments, such that each of these compartments are totally independent, apart from well defined interfaces; makes everything so much easier to deal with. Mention that everything affects everything, and a little, almost imperceptible, cold shiver just might go up this person's back ...

A good example of how successful that black box thinking can be is the current Joint Strike Fighter project - saw a program on that last night. Just have each team work out how their part of the ensemble needs to perform, get it right, and finally assemble the bits - and all is good to go. On time, on budget, "proper engineering" ...

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Old 18th February 2013, 10:10 PM   #232
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no, many will argue that you are now yet again changing your position, this is called trolling, simple. there is no damage done, they are binary codes, identical binary codes, there is no room for damage that doesnt change a bit. there is no mechanism to store anything else.

2 options, you have no idea how digital binary code works (hard to believe since its such a simple concept) or you are trolling.

or perhaps you are speaking another language and dont realize it, the bits stored in your memory nolonger relate to the correct terms, so your recall is not bit-perfect?
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Old 18th February 2013, 10:34 PM   #233
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@qusp: There's no data, no informed theory, just handwaving and repeated assertions- not to be unkind, but why do you bother to respond?
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Old 18th February 2013, 10:46 PM   #234
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@qusp: There's no data, no informed theory, just handwaving and repeated assertions- not to be unkind, but why do you bother to respond?
fair enough, I have no idea...

why do you continue to reply to John? when someone presents as if they should know better but continuously make obvious, impossible and contradictory statements; that really screws with my mind.

what i'm responding to and what maddens me is mostly the repeated and quite blatant flip flopping (so to speak ) of the position. the trolling. perhaps i'll let the ******** build up unchecked for a while before coming back to contribute some sanity. wait for the 3 guys that all have stated similarly mistaken, but also conflicting ideas to start back slapping as if they know what the other is talking about.

Last edited by qusp; 18th February 2013 at 10:51 PM.
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Old 18th February 2013, 11:21 PM   #235
fas42 is online now fas42  Australia
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there is no damage done, they are binary codes, identical binary codes, there is no room for damage that doesnt change a bit. there is no mechanism to store anything else.

2 options, you have no idea how digital binary code works (hard to believe since its such a simple concept) or you are trolling.

or perhaps you are speaking another language and dont realize it, the bits stored in your memory nolonger relate to the correct terms, so your recall is not bit-perfect?
I call that trolling: you're claiming that I'm saying that noise is stored with the bits ... hmmm??

As regards data, poor ol' Einstein would have chopped to shreds by the lot going full pelt here ... as it was, he was ignored or ridiculed -- "Where's the data, Albert ... eh, eh, eh ... you're off your rocker, mate!!"

Need a big sign at the front entrance: "Hand veffin' ist VERBOTEN!!" ...

Frank

Last edited by fas42; 18th February 2013 at 11:23 PM.
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Old 19th February 2013, 02:25 AM   #236
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Default That mechanism!

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It rather blows a hole in the idea that our ideas are ever improving
Think of all the foundational thinking that had to come BEFORE the mechanism:
1. The revelation that the movement in the heavens can be predicted mathematically, or, as Einstein said, the most incomprehensible thing about the universe is that it is comprehensible.
2. Observation and plotting of the movements of all planets visible by the naked eye, arriving at the epicycle (taking a geocentric orientation, planets can move retrograde at times). He/she had to know Ptolemy or another such.
3. Conceptual design of each gear in relation to all of the other gears. The rotating ball that shows the phases of the moon! Sizing each gear so the movement of each planet is proportional when the knob is turned. What is that? Multi-variable algebra?
4. Not sure if they got eclipses down though, since that takes a long long time to observe a pattern, and it is dependent on the coordinates of the observer.

The education, tooling, economic system for enough leisure away from bare survival, and a genius to make it. No known antecedents. Subsequent attempts coming much later, like water clocks, several orders of magnitude simpler.

It exists. It's inarguable. It is a far greater wonder than the seven wonders of the ancient world to a thinking person.
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Old 19th February 2013, 02:39 AM   #237
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...or the Martians forgot some of their luggage
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Old 19th February 2013, 04:51 AM   #238
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Frank, dont be ridiculous, Albert had a theory and math, you have a paradox and a fairytale
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Old 19th February 2013, 05:18 AM   #239
fas42 is online now fas42  Australia
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Frank, dont be ridiculous, Albert had a theory and math, you have a paradox and a fairytale
Ahhh, I see my problem, no maths!! I guess I'll have to reach for my ol' calculus book and chuck in some impressive lookin', incomprehensible to just about everyone, integral functions. That just might get me over the line, perhaps ...

Frank
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Old 19th February 2013, 05:42 AM   #240
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Oh noz! Now you've done it.

Quote:
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Frank, dont be ridiculous, Albert had a theory and math, you have a paradox and a fairytale
Quote:
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Ahhh, I see my problem, no maths!! I guess I'll have to reach for my ol' calculus book and chuck in some impressive lookin', incomprehensible to just about everyone, integral functions. That just might get me over the line, perhaps ...

Frank
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