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Old 19th September 2012, 10:03 PM   #1181
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Location: Brisbane, Australia
Sorry I didn't point it out more clearly but my thinking on suggesting 22.x/24MHz was 'enough' is only that if you test at 44.1/48kHz you're still at 256*Fs which meets the datasheet requirement. This isn't fast enough to do anything interesting with OSF-bypass though.

I had missed noticing that the greater than didn't come with an equals sign, so good call there too qusp!

I have certainly clarified a lot of my understanding on these MCK issues from this discussion, thanks guys.

The one thing that I take away from all of this is that the source should provide the fastest and cleanest possible MCK, to let us consume media with higher Fs than redbook cd. The rest of what we have discussed is in the DAC implementation from what I can see.

From Lucian's perspective these clocks would be only for this new breed of DAC and he would still need to maintain his existing oscillator frequencies for DACs that are unable to perform at these clock frequencies.

Last edited by hochopeper; 19th September 2012 at 10:09 PM.
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Old 19th September 2012, 10:22 PM   #1182
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I also have a suspicion that what we're saying here also calls for MCK to be 256*Fs, 512*Fs or 1024*Fs; ie log2(multiplier) should produce an integer result. That is perhaps going to come into the mix when deciding what the MCK that the source might need to provide.


In the end my preferred solution will probably involve the Si570 like qusp has said.
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Old 19th September 2012, 11:54 PM   #1183
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Default qusp:

Yes, "effectively disabled", because they do nothing when the master clock and bit clcok are synchronous. To me, doing absolutely nothing, is the same as being turned off.

Yes, I have no difficulties playing at rates up to 24/192 with the DPLL on the B-III set to the most narrow setting with synchronous clocking. With the same USB interface, and the 80 MHz masterclock running the chip asynchronously, the DPLL bandwidth had to be opened up to play any high res stuff. And yes, the "best" (default) setting is actually "auto" where the ESS 9018 itself tries to automatically choose an optimum DPLL setting-this is confirmed in the Buffalo III integration manual.

Once again, as far as I can tell, synchronous clocking has entirely different clock requirements than running the ESS 9018 in normal (async) fashion. Like I said, mine works perfectly when running synchronously, providing the masterclock from my (XMOS) USB interface, at rates up to 24/192, with masterclock frequencies of 22.579 and 24.576. I have never, not even once, had a single click or pop playing 24/176.04 and 24/192 files.
I do suspect that I would get better sound with 45.158/49.152 oscillators for 24/176.4 and 24/192 files though (only because ESS says so, I suspect the filters are not running optimally). And, as mentioned, Russ White, who checks with Dustin from ESS, is planning on using 90.316/98.304 oscillators for his forthcoming USB interface in order to provide best possible performance for sample rates up to 384.
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Old 20th September 2012, 12:14 AM   #1184
Bunpei is offline Bunpei  Japan
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In my case, I only use ES9018 under a synchronous master clocking scheme.
My main transport, SDTrans384, outputs MCLK of both 22.5792/24.576 MHz and 90.3168/98.304MHz.
When I connect other transports for evaluation, I insert an automatic MCLK multiplier provided by Mr. Fujisawa.
http://easyaudiokit.hobby-web.net/be...018S_ADDON.pdf
(in Japanese)

His sub-board can convert 11.2896/12.288/22.5792/24.576 MHz to 90.3168/98.304 MHz automatically. The multiplier board has ICS570 chip( not Si570) and PIC. Its domestic price is 2,900 JPY.

The merit of synchronous master clocking is SQ.

If you require a play of DXD 352.8 kHz/ 24 bit with OSF = ON, you need MCLK higher than 90.3168 MHz. For a DSD256, you need MCLK higher than 45.1584 MHz. If you only play <= 192 kHz and allow OSF=OFF, 22.5792/24.576 MHz is enough. For 44.1 kHz, OSF = OFF, 11.2896 MHz is enough.

Bunpei
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Old 20th September 2012, 03:58 AM   #1185
Bunpei is offline Bunpei  Japan
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I'm sorry. I made two mistakes. I need to correct them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunpei View Post
If you only play <= 192 kHz and allow OSF=OFF, 22.5792/24.576 MHz is enough. For 44.1 kHz, OSF = OFF, 11.2896 MHz is enough.
If you only play <= 384 kHz and allow OSF=OFF, 22.5792/24.576 MHz is enough. For 44.1 kHz only, 11.2896 MHz is enough.
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Old 20th September 2012, 08:35 AM   #1186
jmltinc is offline jmltinc  United States
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Please allow me to add myself to the list...

1. hirez69
2. analog_sa
3. m.massimo
4. ozlegend
5. luisbock
6. vitalica
7. palmito
8. gabanyayaya
9. danny_66
10. shoom
11. kp93300
12. lindamar
13. merlin el mago
14. Reo
15. arkadiush1
16. jmltinc
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Old 20th September 2012, 12:05 PM   #1187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunpei View Post
I'm sorry. I made two mistakes. I need to correct them.
If you only play <= 384 kHz and allow OSF=OFF, 22.5792/24.576 MHz is enough. For 44.1 kHz only, 11.2896 MHz is enough.
.. that's enough for me either so I'll go with Crysteks for now as I2C communication will complicate things in such a way that I would better avoid.

One small update to this list:
1. hirez69
2. analog_sa
3. m.massimo
4. ozlegend
5. luisbock
6. vitalica
7. palmito
8. gabanyayaya
9. danny_66
10. shoom
11. kp93300
12. lindamar
13. merlin el mago
14. Reo
15. arkadiush1
16. jmltinc
17. zibra

Best wishes,
L
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Last edited by Lorien; 20th September 2012 at 12:14 PM.
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Old 20th September 2012, 12:07 PM   #1188
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so... Lucian, no way of having 50Mhz (44.xx actually) ?

best
Pepe

Last edited by lindamar; 20th September 2012 at 12:12 PM.
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Old 20th September 2012, 12:20 PM   #1189
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Yes and no:
* yes because I'm trying to use Crysteks 45.x and 49.x oscillators and...
* no because maximum MCLK freq at output will be 22.5792 or 24.576 MHz (divided with 2 by a Flip Flop).
I'm still searching for alternatives...
L
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Daughter card GB list for WaveIO can be found here

Last edited by Lorien; 20th September 2012 at 12:38 PM.
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Old 20th September 2012, 12:39 PM   #1190
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Thank you Lucian, hope you´ll really find an alternative.... my Buffalo DAC really shines with 50Mhz sync

best
Pepe
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