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-   -   Kwak clock versus Tent clock (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-source/18868-kwak-clock-versus-tent-clock.html)

rbroer 11th August 2003 05:52 PM

Kwak clock versus Tent clock
 
I've recently replaced my Elso Kwak-Clock v7 with a Guido Tent XO2 to compare these clocks.

Notes:
The Tent XO2 is a pcb containing a low noise supply
My Kwak-Clock v7 implementation differs; it contains 3 individual current source fed shunt regulator supplies and uses a TI very high speed SMD comparator.

Application:
Non-oversampling cd player with TDA1543, synchronous reclocking using VHC logic, common base active I/V (see simple I/V threads)

No suspense, :cool:
the Tent XO2 clock sounds better than my implementation of Kwak-Clock v7

The differences are IMHO not shocking though;
Tent XO2 sounds a little "cleaner", more seperation of instruments
Attack is a little better too, I can hear more "plucking" of strings
Sound depth goes a bit deeper as well

The Kwak-clock has the best price/performance ratio I think.
Is the Tent XO2 clock worth the Euro 110 (incl. P&P) :confused:
Well, that's up to you. For me, it's an improvement, although considerably emptying my budget I've set for myself this year.

zygibajt 11th August 2003 08:30 PM

Thanks for sharing Your expirence with us.I'm planning to biuld Kwak clock,too.Would You please tell me what was the diffrance between CD player without the clock and with it.And ,also if Guido cloc brought 100% improvement,how much Elso Kwak clock brought? 80%,60%?
Bartek

Guido Tent 11th August 2003 08:48 PM

Re: Kwak clock versus Tent clock
 
Quote:

Originally posted by rbroer
I've recently replaced my Elso Kwak-Clock v7 with a Guido Tent XO2 to compare these clocks.

Notes:
The Tent XO2 is a pcb containing a low noise supply
My Kwak-Clock v7 implementation differs; it contains 3 individual current source fed shunt regulator supplies and uses a TI very high speed SMD comparator.

Application:
Non-oversampling cd player with TDA1543, synchronous reclocking using VHC logic, common base active I/V (see simple I/V threads)

No suspense, :cool:
the Tent XO2 clock sounds better than my implementation of Kwak-Clock v7

The differences are IMHO not shocking though;
Tent XO2 sounds a little "cleaner", more seperation of instruments
Attack is a little better too, I can hear more "plucking" of strings
Sound depth goes a bit deeper as well

The Kwak-clock has the best price/performance ratio I think.
Is the Tent XO2 clock worth the Euro 110 (incl. P&P) :confused:
Well, that's up to you. For me, it's an improvement, although considerably emptying my budget I've set for myself this year.

dear Rudolf,

Thanks for your feedback. Some notes:

- I do not know total cost of Kwak clock (and not at all the cost of "turbo" version you built)
- XO2 is ready build, tested and adjusted, for the lazy DIY
- XO2 has 5 years warrantee

The sound may even improve when you use a seperate transformer / supply, this may be the case for both clocks.

For this reason I designed a choke input power supply, which gives very low grain.

best regards

capslock 12th August 2003 11:49 AM

Hi Guido,

what is your current web page that describes XO2?

Greetings,

Eric

Guido Tent 12th August 2003 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by capslock
Hi Guido,

what is your current web page that describes XO2?

Greetings,

Eric

Hi Eric

No website yet, am building one (www.10T.nl) and will keep you update

Will mail info offline

regards

Guido

Elso Kwak 11th September 2003 04:52 PM

Re: Kwak clock versus Tent clock
 
Quote:

Originally posted by rbroer
I've recently replaced my Elso Kwak-Clock v7 with a Guido Tent XO2 to compare these clocks.

Notes:
The Tent XO2 is a pcb containing a low noise supply
My Kwak-Clock v7 implementation differs; it contains 3 individual current source fed shunt regulator supplies and uses a TI very high speed SMD comparator.
.


Hi Rudolf,
Actually you did not build the KWAK-CLOCK-7 but something resembling it.
In the KWAK-CLOCK the AD8561 or MAX913 is used. You are using the TL3016 which I did not test.
Also you changed the powersupply. For better or for worse?:clown:

rbroer 12th September 2003 06:50 AM

Elso,

Well, in fact I've used all 3 of these comparators Elso :cool:

I just try different variations each time.
Got one with discrete shunt regulators fed by J111 as ccs's.
Another with TL431's. I really don't hear that many changes between them. :cannotbe:

But for a reality check, I'll try the clock tonight again.
Have done loads of tweakings to the TDA1543:king: player. Man, this DAC is really sensitive to it's supply (caps :nod: ). Got tremendous bass now and so tight... :)
So maybe the clock preference has changed again :Ohno:

:devily: You once tried my LCAudio clock, so I'm willing to compare your implementation Elso. As a matter of fact, more and more I like these feedback-less emitter follower supplies :idea:

:wave2:

Elso Kwak 12th September 2003 07:38 AM

Feedback-less emittor follower power supply
 
Quote:

Originally posted by rbroer
Elso,
. Man, this DAC is really sensitive to it's supply (caps :nod: ).
:devily:

As a matter of fact, more and more I like these feedback-less emitter follower supplies :idea:

:wave2:


Hi Rudolf,
Well version 6 of the KWAK-CLOCK was the best with the large decoupling caps an idea originated by you. Unfortunately version 6 gave big problems in Sony and CEC players. For those who want to try it replace C16 and C17 by a low ESR, large value f.a. 12000F electrolytic.

You mean this one as supply for the DAC?:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...882#post181882
:bigeyes:

Guido Tent 13th September 2003 07:18 PM

Re: Feedback-less emittor follower power supply
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Elso Kwak



Hi Rudolf,
Well version 6 of the KWAK-CLOCK was the best with the large decoupling caps an idea originated by you. Unfortunately version 6 gave big problems in Sony and CEC players. For those who want to try it replace C16 and C17 by a low ESR, large value f.a. 12000F electrolytic.

You mean this one as supply for the DAC?:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...882#post181882
:bigeyes:

the big cap is probably to get rid of low frequency noise on the supply (the ear is very sensitive for LF jitter)

In my clock I use an active filter that goes dwn very low, to avoid big caps, as they suffer from other problems as well.

regards

rbroer 19th September 2003 07:25 AM

Elso,

I tried the Kwak clock again (with improved decouple caps) and after a few days the Tent clock went back in.

Same impressions again,
With the Tent clock it sounds more transparent, cleaner, very precise.
There are some other minor differences.
But other than that they sound quite similar to me.

The Kwak clock is more forgiving on bad recordings/mixes. With the Tent clock in, I hear exactly how bad (digital, harsh) the mix is.

BTW, I've played a lot with capacitors on the TDA1543.
For great bass :wiz: (which you like), drop me a :mail:. All those :bored: around here with them :$: BG and Oscons :headbash:

:wave2:

EDIT

I'll make one more pcb for the Kwak-Clock with a mod I talked a while ago to make the current draw of the fet stage nearly constant. Will let you know the results in due time.


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