Recommendations for decent and inexpensive CD player

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Hi,

I know this has been covered in the past, but what the heck :) My CD player is dying a slow and painful death. And for the record, that has nothing to do with the mods I performed on it, the player's worked fine for a year since I touched it last. (Just thought I'd state that, since everyone including my wife is teasing me about that :))

So, I'm looking for recommendations for a CD player. Requirements are:

* $300 - $400 used
* Has a digital output (so I can build a DAC down the line)
* Sounds reasonably musical out of the box
* Is a good platform for modding

I searched through the archives, and the Marantz 53/63 series seem to be very popular mod platforms, but someone said they don't sound so good in stock form. I've seen a NAD recommended (C540? C540i?) that's said to be good in stock form and easy to upgrade. I was looking around on Audiogon last night and saw some CAL Icons, I think, in my price range. And there are a few Sonys and Pioneers and others that I don't know anything about, they may have very good transports for all I know.

I'd appreciate some more names that I can go off and research.

Thanks,
Saurav
 
CD player Recommendation

My Recommendation, for $275 or less:

NEC 6XE SCSI CDROM external drive and the Assemblage
DAC 2.0 with parts upgrade package.

The NEC drive is a very high build quality unit ($600!) out of the
mid 90s with full playback controls, and a growing reputation
for excellent sonics. They are often available on E-bay for
$ 10 to 25 dollars, and even sometimes new for $50 to 60.
Read the review at this address for the NEC drive:

www.positive-feedback.com/Issue3/cdrom.htm

The Assemblage DAC 2.0 is a unit that uses the Crystal CS8412,
PMD100 HDCD filter, and Burr Brown PMC1702 current output
20 bit mono DAC chips. The parts upgrade has an I/V using
AD811 and many resistor/capacitor/wire/jack upgrades. This DAC is periodically seen for sale on E-bay and Audiogon for $ 225 to
$250.

The combination, with a 48 hour warm-up, produces a very fine
sound quality with lively dynamics, great pacing, very high res-
olution, and a large airy soundstage with depth and transparancy.
The sound overall is quite good with well recorded CD music. This
combo does not smooth out bad or average CD sound , so it is not for a person who needs there entire music collection to be easy to listen to (make bad/mediocre digital recording sound good), or someone who has a bright, forward system. But if
you have a fairly neutral to slightly warm system, and listen
to high quality CD recordings, this pair will shine.

I have not heard anything better for under $275, and there are
still many mods that could be done to either component to further
improve the sonics.

fastcat
 
Thanks, that's an option that I hadn't considered. I wouldn't call my system warm, but I like it the way it is, and don't want an overly warm sounding CD player, so this should work well. The lack of a remote is a bit of a drawback, but very small (since my linestage is a DIY with no remote).

Edit: Will I have to give up direct track access? That would be a slightly bigger deal for me...
 
NEC 6XE drive controls

Hello!

The NEC has forward and backward track access, as well as
play, pause, stop and repeat. The guy who wrote the article
for Positive Feedback told me in an E-mail that the NEC holds
up well compared to transports costing up to $3K. If you go
this route, buy several of the drives to have a backup.

Some people have modified the 6XE with high performance
+5 and +12 VDC analog power supplies, better digital output circuit & jack, clock damping, etc. They report still better sonics with the mods installed.

fastcat:nod:
 
Hi,

Was it me who said the Marantz players are crap in stock form? ;)

I have to chip in and say my modded 63ki is absolutely beautiful sounding, and it gets better every week as I perform more tweaks...

Apparently, the 'se', not 'ki' are smooth and listenable, perhaps unlike I found my ki version to be, so please don't be put off, if you see a good enough price. I bet you can get a 67mk2se for $150 if you hunt/wait - a mate bought one from Ebay-UK for £90 - bargain!!

Immediately remove the dc blocking caps and muting transistors, for a large free upgrade!

With the remaining budget add some bitumen damping, conical feet, proper power lead and input cap, some Schottky diodes, and maybe change the analogue/output filter caps. All this is probably well <$100 total and will transform the player into a proper musical one.

Still under budget you could fit a low-jitter clock and its own psu.

I have done all these and more, and I reckon its as good as £1000+ With new op-amps, [I don't know exactly what to buy yet], I'm confident the player could only be bettered by a VERY expensive player.

Just an alternative to your first alternative :nod:


-Simon
 
Thanks for the advice. I don't remember whose post I saw that comment in :) I liked the idea of getting a CD-ROM drive and building a DAC, so I bid on a 6XE on eBay. Let's see what happens. If I don't win it, I might change my mind again and return to looking at CD players.
 
I'm very happy with the Technics SL-PG100 i brought ($150arg used, from a friend). This is a very well built unit, doesn't skip at ALL and on top of it, it sounds pretty darn good as it is. Plus, there's a lot of room for tweaks / improvements - i already converted it to 220vac and right now i'm contemplating a caps and opamp change. The main pcb board is the same for all the "PG" line (this is the cheaper model) so the wiring for digital out and such are there, only the parts are missing, so that's something i'm definitely going to do too.
 
CD63mkII KIS

Hello!
I would like to recommend the Marantz CD63 KIS, no need to look further. :)
It meets all your requirements. Have one myslef and it sounds really good and you can make it sound even better by modding.
There's a wealth of info here and elsewhere on how to mod your CD63.
Think you'd easily can pick one up for less than $300.
Cheers,
Tom
 
Indeed, so many of them going 2nd hand, and so good for modding! Mine cost me £180 ($290 current xchange rate), but you could get one for less if you're lucky.

This really is the 'soft option' though, making one from *scratch* is more like real DIY, and may be more satisfying to do...

Zombie, have you changed the op-amps in your cd63? I want to know what to get, the suggestions I've had so far I don't know where to buy :(


-Simon
 
Opamp

Hello Simon!
Yes, I have changed the opamps, and installed a goldplated IC socket so I can change opamps at will.
I currently use OPA2604 from Burr-Brown. I have decoupled at the +/- pins to ground with 0,1uF polystyrene caps.
In my opinion the most obvious improvements are to get better output caps (or remove them if the DC is low - not recommended by many) and to match the 10k and 27k resistors at the first opamp after the DAC. A 27k trimpot makes it possible to adjust the diffamp for maximum effect.
The clock mod is also a good mod.
Cheers
tom
 
Thanks Zombie,

I can get that op-amp from Farnell (£5.69 inc. tax for 2), so I will maybe order it today, but you did not mention how good it sounds ;)

I want to change the resistors at the end of the output, because one measures 200ohms and the other only 198ohms. Is it worth spending the £8 on a pair of 'non-inductive' 0.1% tolerance ones?

I recently removed the dc blocking caps, to GREAT effect! (replaced 'em with silver wire) I guess I have no problems, what are the potential problems anyway? (maybe my amp has the caps at the input)


All the best,
-Simon (eagerly awaiting his next upgrades :) )
 
Hello!
The OPA2604 (and OPA2134) sounds better than the 2114, but you must decouple. There are people arguing that the original opamps are OK. There's more "speed" and "detail" and responsivenes, but all these adjectives are subjetive anyway, you have to try and listen yourself...

I haven't compared them to any of the other that people use and prefer - do a search.
Thought about throwing in a quad of OPA627s, but then one needs to make a little board that fits two ops, the 627 aren't available as a double opamp.

If you remove the output caps you will get DC on the output. Usually the next piece in the chain (the preamp) has caps on the input blocking DC. If the DC is lower than ~20mV there's no problem...but there are people warning against it, too. I haven't had any probs - so far :rolleyes:

But like I said earlier, matching the 10k and 27k within 0,1% tolerance gives a big improvement - if they weren't exact before, that is...
Filling the machine with bitumen everywhere and the tray with bluetac is also very effective.
You'll find a lot here and on audioasylum and the TNT site...
Cheers,
Thomas
 
Cool, I will try this op-amp, as soon as possible, also ordering a desoldering pump ;) I will decouple it with 220nf polyester film I have some of.

Resistors:
I don't know where these 10k and 27k resistors are, I will look at the service manual to find them, I suspect they will cost a lot at 0.1% tol.-looking it up now. Please would you be so kind as to advise me what power rating I can use? 1w, 0.33w, more, less?

Damping:
I've gone all-out for Blu-tac and bitumen, and I mean all out! I agree, it provides a large upgrade, especially used with oak cone feet - musical to the max :)

Tnt audio:
I love this site, and Thoersten's (prolly spelt wrong) mods is where almost all of mine have come from, I have huge respect for him. One more I will do soon is to swap certain resistors for axial inductors and ferrite beads, they're on my 'to order' list with the op-amps :)

Thanks again Zombie, maybe sometime we should start a thread listing all CD63 mods and rating their effectiveness...


-Simon
 
Saurav said:
Thanks for the advice. I don't remember whose post I saw that comment in :) I liked the idea of getting a CD-ROM drive and building a DAC, so I bid on a 6XE on eBay. Let's see what happens. If I don't win it, I might change my mind again and return to looking at CD players.


My modded SACD 1000 is acting up, hardly works now. A little while ago, I bought the NEC on Ebay. I'm actually using it for my CDP right now, it sounds better than it should as a CDP for $25, but not really close to my 1000.

I am probably going to buy a Scott Nixon DACKIT (if he ever answers my email), and see how they sound together. If it's good, then I'll start modding the NEC and DACKIT, and see how far I can take it.

Randy
 
Any of you guys tried Sony?

Hi Saurav,

You've already gots lots of interesting inputs, most of them very suited for our DIY instincts. I wanted to add a pointer to Sony players, since no one else seems to have commented on them.

The better Sony CD and/or SACD players are excellent value for money, and if you get them used, they may fit into the budget you mentioned. Apart from the sonics, they seem to have one property which few CD players have, budget or high-end: excellent error correction. I have a couple of scratched CDs which I use for testing this, and all Sony CD players, including fifteen-year-old top-end SE models, are superb in playing them... they don't miss a heartbeat. Even on the really serious scratches, they may just do a very minor click, which you wouldn't notice if you weren't expecting it.

Sony DVD/SACD players are often very good too. In particular, the DVP-NS900V which I have is excellent value for the money. I'd expect a typical US street price to be about $500 for a new piece. It's now discontinued; there are cheaper and flimsier successors now. But you may be able to get one used. We actually bought this one for its audio properties (primarily CD, we have very few SACDs). That it plays DVDs very well is a bonus. Some say Sony players have a thin sound. I believe this is only true in the first couple of hundred hours of playing. I still have my old cheap Yamaha CD player, and I keep doing occasional A-to-B comparisons, and I can assure you that the Sony's sound is not thin. The highs are very clean and lovely, and the sound will probably beat any high-end brand costing $1K or a bit more.

I somehow never got to like the Marantz, neither their amps nor their CD players. (I've only heard their low-end models, e.g. the CD6000OSE player and the 6010OSE amp). They're too understated. It's as if the music is not all there.... very flat and the opposite of "foot-tapping lively." Don't know how else to put it.

One last question: isn't it better to have a one-box CD player instead of a two-box? People keep saying how the cable between the transport and DAC is a primary cause of jitter, unless you can have a common clock driving both. Just curious...

Tarun
 
I don't know where these 10k and 27k resistors are, I will look at the service manual to find them, I suspect they will cost a lot at 0.1% tol.-looking it up now. Please would you be so kind as to advise me what power rating I can use? 1w, 0.33w, more, less?

Hello!
Please look at this link

You can use the existing resistors to get a 0,1% match (like I did). If you don't use the headphone amp, there are some 10k there that you can use. It is possible to measure most of them in circuit...

Cheers
tom
 
Hi,

Thanks for the link, very enlightening, I will replace more resistors as he suggests, just need to find some good ones!

I notice two he suggests shorting out (R615+R616) were replaced with axial inductors by Thorsten, I will do the same in mine.

I love the player now, and can't wait to hear what it can do with resistor changes, new op-amps and some more better caps here and there!

Btw, I used silvered mica in the analogue filter to change two values, is this a good choice? (I couldn't find any polystyrene ones at the time)

I guess the resistor power rating doesn't matter, as noone seems to mention it at all...


-Simon
 
Hello!
I have shorted out my resistor, the second best thing to put an inductor...
If you're going to buy new resistors, mind that the ones in the CD are quite small, maybe even 1/4W.
Can't say anything about the micas, only that they are used in high frequency applications and filters. Maybe someone more educated can comment?
Good luck!
Tom
 
New op-amps, all good :)

Hi Zombie,

I bought the OPA2604, and 'decoupled' the + and -v pins to ground with 220nf each. Whilst 'under the bonnet' I shielded all 3 ICs under the board with al. tape and grounded it. I've only had the chance to hear 3 CDs so far, but for sure the sound has changed for the better. Slightly less harsh, a touch warmer, certainly smoother and less grainy, better sound-staging, better low-level detail, and tighter bass. Overall, very positive for about 6.50ukp!

I've been looking at the service manual for the player, and I see most/all resistors are 1/4w or less, and 5% tolerance!? I got those inductors and 50(!) 100R/1% resistors for the output, so I can pick the closest ones. I will get the others soon...


-Simon

ps, apologies to Saurav for taking this thread slightly off-topic :goodbad:
 
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