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Old 1st January 2012, 04:54 PM   #1021
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnm View Post
Hi folks, and a VERY Happy New Year to you all

I've decided I am going to use the schematic posted below for the output stage on my DAC - looks simple & elegant which usually bodes well for good sound quality. Would any of those 2sk170s/2sj74s need to be matched, and of certain grades to work optimally? Thank you.

Cheers,

- John
Hello John ,

Yes the schematic is simple but i burned out the AK4396 !!!!
I don't really advise you to try it !!!!

Serge
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Old 1st January 2012, 05:08 PM   #1022
F1 FAN is offline F1 FAN  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaveFremen View Post


Sorry, no again, Panasonic FCs, while excellent SMPS caps, are not suitable for audio, IMHO.
Well I disagree Dario.I have used FC's in many a project including this DAC and have no reason to believe they are unsuitable in any way for general power supply filtering and local decoupling purposes.
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Old 1st January 2012, 06:51 PM   #1023
pchw is offline pchw  United States
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I suppose we all hear and don't hear, coupled with my own preferences, IMHO, the best way to find what is best to you is to try it out, if possible.

I admittedly started with Dario's mod list but differentiated judiciary, mostly due to the parts that I have in hand (Panny FC's and Silmic II) and what I could order in one shot, and partially my own believe like I don't need to use a 63VDC cap in a more than 20VDC circuit.

Recall that in a few post back, I planned to take the output from the AK4696 directly without LPF and opamp. I spent some time in the last few days to try out 2 configurations:
1. Output transformer (a cheap pair that I have around, Edcor PW600/600).
2. Capacitor out (Silmic II 10 uF // CDE Vitamin Q 0.47 uF // 6200pF FT2 Telfon).
Since I don't use the opamp, I only use a Radioshack 120V/12.6VAC 3A transformer which is more than enough to power the board.

After 3 days of extensive listening, my preference goes to the #1. Compare the 2 alternatives, the cap out just doesn't have the clarity of the mid and the high of the OT's, and this can only be better with the Cinemag's that I need to find out where they are hidden in my pile of junks :-) However, there is a down side of the OT's, they are very unforgiving. Any artifacts in the recordings are simply amplified, whereas the cap-out masks that in a nice manner. This was very obviously when I listened to some so called remastering from Hong Kong for some recordings from 30 - 40 years ago. To me, a little coloration actually helps.

I have to say either one turned out quite well, and I can listen to either one comfortably. For now, I choose the cap-out, mainly due to the fact that the chassis that I use is simply too small accommodate the OT's.

Happy New Year and Happy Listening to All!!
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Old 1st January 2012, 10:34 PM   #1024
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F1 FAN View Post
Well I disagree Dario.I have used FC's in many a project including this DAC and have no reason to believe they are unsuitable in any way for general power supply filtering and local decoupling purposes.
Well, maybe I should clarify and elaborate...

FCs are good quality caps and when used in place of standard elcos at first glance they're a BIG upgrade, they sound:

  • full bodied
  • nice and slappy bass
  • great sense of rithm
But when you compare them with other quality elcos, especially but not only audio-grade ones, you discover that those nice (apparent) qualities are due to a strange form of sound compression (like in most 'remasters' cds) and you identify such effect like a 'loudness' one.


But the most annoying problem is that sort of high frequency glare, harsness, that it's not present in other caps but common to most SMPS caps (also Nichicon PWs have it).


An exception are Elna RJHs, also SMPS caps, nice and balanced.


I've tried (and used for some time) FCs in a variety of applications, at the end they were invariably replaced with other caps...


Also in the MINI2496 I've tried them for the big supply caps positions and for opamp decoupling... as always they sounded harsh to my ears.


Maybe I'm overly sensitive to harshness but strictly IMHO, in my experience and in my system, I consider FCs not suitable for high quality audio.
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Old 2nd January 2012, 01:18 AM   #1025
erin is offline erin  Australia
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I agree with Dario. I find Panasonic FC to have woolly i'll defined bass, grainy midrange, and the highs are not extended. They seem to compress the sound into a mid band.

If people must for some reason use Panasonic, they have a current production "audio grade" capacitor. It is called Panasonic ECA series. But I have not tried it.

FC seems to have a cult status around here which IMO is totally unjustified considering their very average sound quality.

It surprises me that people constantly insist on using the FC when there are other much better options available for just a few dollars more.

If you cant get a better quality cap locally, try parts connexion. They sell Nichicon and Elna capacitors, and more. The parts are genuine, their prices are very reasonable, and worldwide shipping for small quantities (light weight) seems to be around $5-6. Really there is no excuse for using average quality capacitors if you are trying to get the "best" sound you can.

Last edited by erin; 2nd January 2012 at 01:20 AM.
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Old 2nd January 2012, 02:20 AM   #1026
defec is offline defec  United States
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Hi guys. Does anyone know if there is much of a difference between these two boards/components besides the price?

Assembled DAC 2496 (AK4396) CS8416 DAC With Transformer--new | eBay

Assembled AK4396 DAC 2496 CS8416 24BIT 192K DAC Decoder Board + Transformer | eBay

Thanks
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Old 2nd January 2012, 03:15 AM   #1027
pchw is offline pchw  United States
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Based on my previous experience, the pictures don't always have the exact parts as the deliverable. I purchased one assembled and one kit, the parts are very much the same grade.

Since it is likely to replace some parts in the future, I will go with the cheaper one as both sellers have similar rating.

Good luck!!
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Old 2nd January 2012, 06:26 AM   #1028
defec is offline defec  United States
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Okay. I was just hoping one of the sellers plagiarized ClaveFremen's BOM so that I had less to do. I'm guessing that I want to get a board with just the ic's soldered sense I have to substitute parts anyway. Mise well save a few bucks.
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Old 2nd January 2012, 12:49 PM   #1029
johnm is offline johnm  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergelisses View Post
Hello John ,

Yes the schematic is simple but i burned out the AK4396 !!!!
I don't really advise you to try it !!!!

Serge
Yikes!!!

OK in that case I'll steer well clear then

Cheers,

- John
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Old 2nd January 2012, 12:51 PM   #1030
johnm is offline johnm  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F1 FAN View Post
Well I disagree Dario.I have used FC's in many a project including this DAC and have no reason to believe they are unsuitable in any way for general power supply filtering and local decoupling purposes.
I agree completely - I've even used them as DC blockers in the input of a couple of amps (whilst waiting for film caps) and to be honest I thought they belied their budget price. I didnt hear any 'compression' or grainyness - sounded very organic to me in fact after a few days running in, quite close to Black Gate Standard...

I guess we all hear differently, and have varying taste. That's the joy of DIY though isn't it - we can tailor the sound to our own preferences
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