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Old 30th December 2011, 01:09 AM   #1011
erin is offline erin  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simes123 View Post
I detect, with preamp volume at Zero, a very low level of hum at the speakers.
Have you got a star grounding arrangement of the RCA ground cables on the pre amp?
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Old 31st December 2011, 03:46 PM   #1012
NebuK is offline NebuK  Germany
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Heyyas,

@ClaveFremen: i was just trying to replicate your shopping list with as high quality parts as i could with my favorite dealer. Granted, shipping for distrelec and partsconnection aren't that bad, but ... i cannot help it - i'd really like to buy there.

So anyways, they do have the full WiMa product line, so i'd use them where you planned them.

As for the regulators i've read some datasheets and have chosen taiwan-semi TS7809CZ C0, as far as i can see the ripple rejection is about as good, if i understand the on-semi datasheets correctly noise is even a little better (on-semi is 10uV per volt V0, with V0=12V we'd have typical of 120uFV mine has typical of < 100uV), so they should be okay to go?

As for the resistor i've chosen 0,1% 0,6W "MPR".

The biggest problem are probably the electrolytic caps, right? Reichelt.de carries panasonic FC-A (EEAFC1*****). Are these good enough for the various purposes?

Also, my list can be seen on https://secure.reichelt.de/index.htm...17;PROVID=2084. I'd really like to add my items to your PDF (even if its only for me own reference), but my pdf-editor choked on it. Do you have some kind of original file (openoffice, excel or the like)?

Anyways, thanks for your big help! Regards
- NebuK
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Old 31st December 2011, 04:39 PM   #1013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NebuK View Post
As for the regulators i've read some datasheets and have chosen taiwan-semi TS7809CZ C0, as far as i can see the ripple rejection is about as good, if i understand the on-semi datasheets correctly noise is even a little better (on-semi is 10uV per volt V0, with V0=12V we'd have typical of 120uFV mine has typical of < 100uV), so they should be okay to go?
I'd advise you to have a look at other specs, which are as or more important than noise rejection, like impedance, which most fixed regulators generally do not exhibit because it's much poorer than on variable regulators like the 3X7 family.

In noise/ripple rejection you also can lower them by bypassing the adjusting resistor with a higher value capacitor up to 22ouF.

Simple Voltage Regulators Part 2: Output Impedance

Have a look at TNT regulator articles.
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Old 1st January 2012, 09:30 AM   #1014
NebuK is offline NebuK  Germany
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Oh, very interesting article. I've understood the general problem and seen the difference (ON: 1.1mOhm, Taiwan: 19mOhm), but ... as far as i understand the 7812 powers one digital 3.3v and one digital 5v and the opamp, the 7809 powers another digital 3.3v (thats it?). So those thingies mainly power other regulators, with buffers in between. Only the 7812 has to power multiple different load situations (opa and regulators). Will all the bad things mentioned in the article occur in this situation too? I could understand that a certain noisefloor backfeeds from the digital supply regulators to the 7812, but as it doesn't directly power logic circuitary (but only its regs) i'd not think that the OPAs supply is affected that much?

Also, please don't get me wrong - i'm not trying to doubt you (way too much of a beginner for that), but rather to understand whats going on!
Thanks Again
- NebuK
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Old 1st January 2012, 02:03 PM   #1015
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Finished. A DAC integrated, ICE Powered Amplifier, using the DAC module in this thread, a pre-amp module, and an ICE Power, 125ASX2 power amplifier module. DAC has had the voltage regs upgraded, the LPF corrected, and I'm using LM4562 Op Amps in the DAC and pre-amp.

Solved the hum problem - I had to run grounds to chassis from the centre tap, and then bond that to signal ground on the DAC board and on the pre-amp board. If I turn it to full volume, and stick my head against the speaker, I can *just* perceive some slight mains hum, but I couldn't eradicate that with any amount of fiddling or changing layout. It's such a low level now I can live with it. I've attached pictures in case anyone is interested in the layout, or the finished product. The case is from a Rotel 10 series DVD player that died a few moons ago. I created a new front panel from Dark Walnut, which turned out to be the trickiest part of the build as it needed some quite complex routing to accommodate the chassis.
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Old 1st January 2012, 02:05 PM   #1016
johnm is offline johnm  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergelisses View Post
For the fun i try this output stage .

There is no output capacitor because there is one on my WA6 input ( Headphone tube amp ) .

My conclusions today .
Better than the OP ,better than the direct output ( Just a serial capa ,or the RC filter ) ...

Serge


Hi folks, and a VERY Happy New Year to you all

I've decided I am going to use the schematic posted below for the output stage on my DAC - looks simple & elegant which usually bodes well for good sound quality. Would any of those 2sk170s/2sj74s need to be matched, and of certain grades to work optimally? Thank you.

Cheers,

- John
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Last edited by johnm; 1st January 2012 at 02:08 PM.
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Old 1st January 2012, 02:22 PM   #1017
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I'd have thought there would be quite a rolloff of high frequencies within the audio passband with those values of R/C at the input to the second stage? I'm no designer, but I'd think you'd want quite close matching of the 2sk170s/2sj74s for low distortion.
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Old 1st January 2012, 02:29 PM   #1018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NebuK View Post
i was just trying to replicate your shopping list with as high quality parts as i could with my favorite dealer. Granted, shipping for distrelec and partsconnection aren't that bad, but ... i cannot help it - i'd really like to buy there.

So anyways, they do have the full WiMa product line, so i'd use them where you planned them.
This dealer is good for Wimas but there you can't find all other components needed...

No problem if you want to use it but in this way you can't populate the board according my BOM, sorry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NebuK View Post
As for the regulators i've read some datasheets and have chosen taiwan-semi TS7809CZ C0
...
so they should be okay to go?
No, sorry, but OnSemi regulators are different from all others, Those TaiwanSemi are as like alll ohters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NebuK View Post
As for the resistor i've chosen 0,1% 0,6W "MPR".
They're fine if you just want to implement the right outèput stage for AK4396 but quality-wise they're no different from the original ones supplied with the kit...

Quote:
Originally Posted by NebuK View Post
The biggest problem are probably the electrolytic caps, right? Reichelt.de carries panasonic FC-A (EEAFC1*****). Are these good enough for the various purposes?
Sorry, no again, Panasonic FCs, while excellent SMPS caps, are not suitable for audio, IMHO.

They've a nice appealing 'loudness' effect but, to my taste, they're also compressed and definitely harsh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NebuK View Post
I'd really like to add my items to your PDF (even if its only for me own reference), but my pdf-editor choked on it. Do you have some kind of original file (openoffice, excel or the like)?
Sorry but your shopping list is noway similar to mine...
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Old 1st January 2012, 02:37 PM   #1019
johnm is offline johnm  United Kingdom
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Dario, whilst I applaud the amount of work you've put into your BOM (which I'm, and many others, are greatful for), and helping others, there ARE other parts people can use/substitute instead of your selection which may well give even better results. There's an infinite amount of possibilties with parts selection afterall, plus not everyone has the same taste/ears. I think people should be encouraged to experiment with parts selection, rather than everyone following the same BOM and getting the same results
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Old 1st January 2012, 03:54 PM   #1020
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Originally Posted by johnm View Post
Dario, whilst I applaud the amount of work you've put into your BOM (which I'm, and many others, are greatful for), and helping others, there ARE other parts people can use/substitute instead of your selection which may well give even better results.

There's an infinite amount of possibilties with parts selection afterall, plus not everyone has the same taste/ears. I think people should be encouraged to experiment with parts selection, rather than everyone following the same BOM and getting the same results
Thanks John

I do agree completely and I encourage experimenting but there are some things that must be taken in account:

  • The new BOM it's no longer mine, it can be even better but it's a different one.
  • NebuK didn't tried parts included in his shopping list, they're selected only on availability from his preferred supplier.
NebuK asked me if he could expect from his selection the same performance of mine.

In my opinion the answer is simply no...
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