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Old 11th March 2011, 02:45 AM   #1
GoranB is offline GoranB  Poland
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Default Vishay low ESR caps

I have a severall peaces of Vishay low ESR caps, I would like to try how they sound. What would be the best place for add those caps in a CD player?

1.Like decoupling caps on analog output stage (in this moment im using Muse)
2.Filtering the PS of analog output (in this moment im using Muse)
3. Filtering the PS of DAC (1541) (now im using SMD electrolytics-i dont know the producer)
4. Filtering the transport (in this moment cheap Nichicon)
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Old 11th March 2011, 10:35 AM   #2
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Looking at your board I wonder if you replace yet the OpAmps after the DAC or they are still the originals... That would make a bigger difference.
As for low ESR I will put this quote that I agree with:
Quote:
Audio caps are optimized for Linearity and low Dielectric-Absorbtion - they're not usually low-ESR, although there are some low-ESR audiophile caps like Nichicon Muse KZ. The inter-electrode spacer plays an important role in audio caps - various materials including silk have been tried. The foil etching and electrolyte composition also differs in audio caps. Leads need to be copper or other non-magnetic material on audiophile caps - any trace of iron, nickel or cobalt in the leads or plating is a strict no-no for audio caps in the signal path; it contributes unwanted inductance as well as EMI/RFI pickup.
Low-ESR motherboard caps are not usually very linear, although there are some low-ESR caps that are also pretty good for audio use, like Panasonic FC, Nichicon PW and Rubycon ZL. Motherboard-grade caps often have ferro-magnetic (steel or nickel-plated) leads for greater rigidity - the extra lead inductance is usually not an issue on flush-fitted motherboard caps.
So... low ESR is not always good. Not on the analog power lines and not in-line with the audio path.
High End Audio - Electrolytic capacitors
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Old 11th March 2011, 12:01 PM   #3
GoranB is offline GoranB  Poland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoNic_real_one View Post
Looking at your board I wonder if you replace yet the OpAmps after the DAC or they are still the originals... That would make a bigger difference.
As for low ESR I will put this quote that I agree with:

So... low ESR is not always good. Not on the analog power lines and not in-line with the audio path.
High End Audio - Electrolytic capacitors
No, i didnt removed the original LM833 yet. I would like to skip them and to try tube output. So, it will be the best to stay with muse caps on analog power supply.
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Old 11th March 2011, 12:35 PM   #4
DF96 is offline DF96  England
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Low ESR caps can sometimes create problems when used to decouple supplies for digital chips, as a higher ESR helps damp resonances with smaller parallel decouplers.
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Old 11th March 2011, 02:04 PM   #5
GoranB is offline GoranB  Poland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DF96 View Post
Low ESR caps can sometimes create problems when used to decouple supplies for digital chips, as a higher ESR helps damp resonances with smaller parallel decouplers.

What caps should be used in digital circuit?
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Old 11th March 2011, 04:17 PM   #6
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If the PCB was designed for ultra-low ESR is not a problem. Like in a PC power supply. But if your board was designed for regular litycs plus ceramic bypass caps, is better not to use low ESR lytics because the risk of unwanted osscilations with the power bus inductance.
I did replace the 833 with some sockets for testing and I did try some other opamps. LM4562 was my final choise.
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Old 11th March 2011, 04:23 PM   #7
GoranB is offline GoranB  Poland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoNic_real_one View Post
If the PCB was designed for ultra-low ESR is not a problem. Like in a PC power supply. But if your board was designed for regular litycs plus ceramic bypass caps, is better not to use low ESR lytics because the risk of unwanted osscilations with the power bus inductance.
I did replace the 833 with some sockets for testing and I did try some other opamps. LM4562 was my final choise.
I really dont know i dont know how could i found out if PCB (PCB is from original Marantz CD40) is good for low ESR caps.
About sockets its a good idea i was thinking about also. In this moment i have only NE5532 is it wort to put them instead of LM833?
My final idea is to build a one stage tube preamp connected directly to the output of TDA1541.
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Old 11th March 2011, 08:53 PM   #8
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Your board was not designed with low ESR in mind. The best you can do is 0.1uF decopling caps between each power pin and ground (not between the power rails).
NE5532 are not better than LM833...
Use LM4562NA/NOPB (8DIP version) or other SMD (like AD8599) with adaptors.
I did try also NJM2068 and OPA2209 (in 8DIP capsule) but the best sounded 4562.

Last edited by SoNic_real_one; 11th March 2011 at 09:01 PM.
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Old 11th March 2011, 09:19 PM   #9
GoranB is offline GoranB  Poland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoNic_real_one View Post
Your board was not designed with low ESR in mind. The best you can do is 0.1uF decopling caps between each power pin and ground (not between the power rails).
NE5532 are not better than LM833...
Use LM4562NA/NOPB (8DIP version) or other SMD (like AD8599) with adaptors.
I did try also NJM2068 and OPA2209 (in 8DIP capsule) but the best sounded 4562.
Thanks for Your suggestions. The caps are already decoupled with WIMA 220nF. About op amps for sure ill try what You suggested. I already ordered two peaces of 4562 about 1 hour ago.

Best regards
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Old 11th March 2011, 10:36 PM   #10
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Let us know what is your oppininon about them after swapping.
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