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Old 30th December 2010, 09:42 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoNic_real_one View Post
That is true only for el-cheapo DVD players. The ones that are serious have independent clocks and some kind of SRC/upsampling in between...
I have two Denon DVD playes that have that - DVD 2910 and 2930, and the sound is way better than my old Phillips CD player based on TDA1541 (that has the "right" clock).
The fact that is sounds better than "an other player" does not say anything about the Denon quality. The back-end of most (if not all) Philips players is lousy, clean it up and you may be surprised.

Anyhow, the 2910 has a synthesizer that generates the audio clock from 27MHz crystal. The audio clock is truly horrible, 30 to 40 dB more jitter than an average decent crystal oscillator.

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Old 31st December 2010, 01:08 AM   #12
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Guido, I don't deny importance of your work - heck I would like one of those clocks if I could afford them!
But there are cases when the jitter from a DVD optical unit send to the DAC (via a DSP/SRC) is not bigger than a CD optical unit. Of course, always can do better with a super clock like yours, but that is not what a regular CD player has originally.

Denon DVD-2910 audio clock (via Analog Devices DSP) - dedicated 18.75MHz. Processing is just for PCM, DSD is derived still from video clock - but is not so sensitive to jitter as PCM.
Click the image to open in full size.

Denon DVD-2930 audio clock - dedicated 25MHz. Processing in DSP is more advanced (AL24).
Click the image to open in full size.

Last edited by SoNic_real_one; 31st December 2010 at 01:13 AM.
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Old 31st December 2010, 01:17 AM   #13
Irakli is offline Irakli  United States
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Hi Begemot,

I have Pioneer DV-656A on e-bay for sale right now for $25. very decent audio tract for the money.
Check it out

Pioneer DV-656A DVD Player - eBay (item 230566853580 end time Dec-31-10 20:21:14 PST)
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Old 31st December 2010, 01:28 AM   #14
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Pioneer is one of the players that has no DSP/SRC. The clock is derived from the 27MHz XTAL with the SM8707HV cip - Guido pointed that such PLL cips have usually a bad jitter.
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Old 31st December 2010, 01:47 PM   #15
robya4 is offline robya4  Italy
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If you are not interested to blu-ray disc i can suggest you to find an old Philips DVd-963SA that reads also SACD.
I have one and it's fantastic with music and the video quality by compnent output it's good because it has a chip DCDi Farouja.
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Old 31st December 2010, 07:34 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoNic_real_one View Post
Denon DVD-2910 audio clock (via Analog Devices DSP) - dedicated 18.75MHz. Processing is just for PCM, DSD is derived still from video clock - but is not so sensitive to jitter as PCM.
Surprising. I assumed the 2910 had the same architecture as the 3910.

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Old 31st December 2010, 07:35 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by robya4 View Post
If you are not interested to blu-ray disc i can suggest you to find an old Philips DVd-963SA that reads also SACD.
I have one and it's fantastic with music and the video quality by compnent output it's good because it has a chip DCDi Farouja.
Stay away from the 963. They sound "mechanical" and die on the spot.
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Old 31st December 2010, 08:18 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Guido Tent View Post
Surprising. I assumed the 2910 had the same architecture as the 3910.
It has. Maybe you overlooked that Analog Devices DSP that is on the PCM data stream. DVD-3910:
Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 1st January 2011, 01:55 AM   #19
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I can put in an enthusiastic vote for the Pioneer DV-656A(aka DV-45A). It's a HUGELY reliable laser & mech, and this generation of Pioneers, from 656A up to the DV-79avi(which has wonderful OPA2134A output opamps stock), are shockingly great sounding cd players even in stock form, and can be upgraded fairly easily to be even better.
unfortunately, from DV-46AV, DV600, etc. forward, Pioneer went to a MUCH LESS reliable laser maker. So, until I see that change, anyone asking me for a cheap but terrific cd player gets the strongest recommendation for the DV-45A & it's brothers. There is not a new dvd or even blu-ray player from any maker on the market that I could recommend, reliability-wise(which is as important to me as sound quality).
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Old 1st January 2011, 02:49 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by SoNic_real_one View Post
It has. Maybe you overlooked that Analog Devices DSP that is on the PCM data stream. DVD-3910:
Click the image to open in full size.
What ADI DSP has to do with clock jitter? Clock jitter is a hardware related item. To have a good jitter, it is necessary to start with a good crystal itself, then it requires good and low noise front end (input buffer/comparator), and proper design of direct or indirect (PLL) clock architecture. ADI DSP is used for signal processing. It may use it's clock to do generate reference clock, but why it is better than just hardware based clock solution? DSP needs clock for it's internal operation. Quality of these clocks is not really very high.

Last edited by Eugene Dvoskin; 1st January 2011 at 02:51 AM.
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