KSS240A in KSS213C mechanism ? - diyAudio
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Old 29th December 2010, 02:25 AM   #1
wabun is offline wabun  United States
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Default KSS240A in KSS213C mechanism ?

Can I put KSS240A in KSS213 mechanism ? Reason why is I have a Denon DCD595 which has a wobbling motor, I cant found KSS240 in ebay but lots of KSS213 mechanism for sale..so this idea come across
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Old 29th December 2010, 06:40 PM   #2
Mooly is offline Mooly  United Kingdom
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In reply to your question, I don't know is the honest answer. Apart from possible physical differences is the T/T height the same between the mechs, and also the gearing for the pickup. That would maybe affect the servo operation/search etc.

Can you not just replace the spindle motor in the Denon with one off another chassis ? Measure the T/T height first before removing the platter.
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Old 29th December 2010, 07:22 PM   #3
anatech is offline anatech  Canada
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Hi Mooly,
Perfect response.

wabun, you really don't want to start messing with servo gains and frequency responses. That's what you will be doing if there are any differences between the two mechanisms. The head doesn't mater, although the one you have may be weak by now. The last two machines I checked both had worn out motors and heads.

The tolerance on TT height is given as 0.1 mm. You need either a jig to set the height, or a micrometer and experience. It's easy to warp the old table while removing it, and they can be different between players.

Shouldn't you be using a good technician?

-Chris
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Old 30th December 2010, 12:06 AM   #4
wabun is offline wabun  United States
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thanks guy ! but how to remove the spindle platter from the motor ? I din see any screw or lock, it looks like just inserted into the shaft with glue / without.
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Old 30th December 2010, 06:44 AM   #5
Mooly is offline Mooly  United Kingdom
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Hi Chris,
hope you are having a nice time over the festive season.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anatech View Post
Shouldn't you be using a good technician?
-Chris
It's a good point wabun, because although it's a straightforward job there is potential to cause damage,

however... as this is DIY

the platter is normally just a tight push fit. Be careful though and try to apply force evenly, very important if it's plastic. Sometimes a little (gentle) leverage with a screwdriver against the motor body and the innermost part of the platter helps... never lever against the platter edge though as you will distort it. Don't lever at an angle, put something on the top of the motor (like a nut etc) so the angle of the driver is as near horizontal as possible.
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Old 30th December 2010, 10:09 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wabun View Post
thanks guy ! but how to remove the spindle platter from the motor ? I din see any screw or lock, it looks like just inserted into the shaft with glue / without.
In general the laser unit and most other parts you can replace individual at the KSM mechanism (also by Philips CDM-mechanism and and most other CD mechanism) but not the disc-motor and the motor-pulley (turntable) resp. spindle-platter, as you this device call, if not to find there a screw for height adjust. Then the pulley is pressed by robotor tools in the production process.

Nevertheless it is possible. If the motor is clearly defectice, put a hot tip from your soldering iron tool very careful for a short time on the top of motor shaft and remove the spindle pulley. By the Linn model "Karik" I have do this several times in such cases, where a Matsushita motor instead a Mabuchi motor is inside. This Matsushita disc motors are almost always wrong.

In case of each KSM SONY mechanism I can recommend only in such cases, where it is possible to make your own screwed disc pulley consist of solid metal, because the likelihood is very great, that old pulley most times unusable after removing through overheating. Additional I would replace also the motor, because the old one could be also defect through the overheating; such motors are not expensive.

Last edited by tiefbassuebertr; 30th December 2010 at 10:17 AM.
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Old 30th December 2010, 07:11 PM   #7
anatech is offline anatech  Canada
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Hi Mooly,
Tolerable, thank you. And you?
Quote:
however... as this is DIY
Just as some people can drive and others are not very good at driving, some people are more adept than others add this kind of work. Only the person considering doing this job can answer that if they are being honest with themselves. This is the point that I keep running into in the DIY community. Many times, I get the distinct feeling that a person may not have the right mindset to do the work as well, not necessarily in this case. I can't tell yet.

Hi wabun,
The difficulties in removing the table exist because the table and shaft are often molded plastic, along with the lower extension that surrounds the shaft. There is normally some adhesive applied before the table is assembled onto the motor, and curing time allowed to make sure the table doesn't shift. Many technicians come in contact with tables that have broken free and slide down. This is common with the top load Philips (mostly) designs, so they are not prepared for a turntable that is stuck fast - like this one will be.

You can apply heat extremely carefully. This operation requires experience, and the odd time I even end up with an out of true table due to the heat. Most often when the iron makes poor contact and I lose the feel for how much heat has been applied. Overconfidence on my part. Replacement tables can be difficult to find because similar mechanisms may have different profiles on the table and clamper. Also, most are magnetic clamps, but there are some pressure clamps systems around too. Lot's to think about.

When the table is coming off, it is easy to apply pressure unevenly to the bottom of the shaft entry (the only acceptable point to apply pressure). This will cause the table to distort some times if you had to use heat. Also, never apply heat to the top of the shaft. You must warm the shaft up from the part between the motor and table. I have even seen the turntable pop off and separate once it "touches down", the metal portion breaking away from the plastic body. That's no fun. Heating the motor shaft does destroy the bearing, and also the molded parts on the armature, depending on how much heat is applied. Consider the motor junk, no matter what.

Cleaning and lubrication. You aren't going to leave the assembly dirty are you? Clean everything off. Relube the track that guides the head and some of the gears. The gears that actually drive the head should be perfectly clean these days. The metal (or ceramic) guide for the head has it's own special lube. The metal shafts use "diamond oil", which is fine, but curiously sticky too. The ceramic shafts use a white lube that also has a slippery sticky-ish quality. Odd stuff, I'm still using what I bought from Denon years ago. Do not apply too much lubricant! It will only collect dust and other nasty stuff.

A good job will produce a mechanism as good as a new one. Anything less will produce a problem unit that never works properly. The disc table height is critical, it really is. If you can not place the table at the proper height, don't try it. I use a "C" clamp so I can gently but firmly place the table exactly where I want it. That's your handy tip for today.

-Chris
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Old 3rd January 2011, 12:34 AM   #8
wabun is offline wabun  United States
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thanks ! I successfully take out the spindle platter by blowing hot air to it ( with hot gun) and just pull it with bare hand without any tools.. however, the true challenge is when replacing a new platter, the height adjustment is very very important. I push insert a replacement platter into the motor, and the cd player plays well, however the vocal was weak, music is ok. after few times of trial error on the spindle platter height, at last I manage to bring it to optimal position. Now the cd player plays well.. :-) so folks.. bkful to the spindle platter height..
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