HDD vs Flash Drive - Ripping and Playback (Split) - Page 49 - diyAudio
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Old 30th June 2013, 07:44 AM   #481
marce is offline marce  United Kingdom
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Nope checksums are 100%, not 99.99% or 99.9999999%
A digital file copied and verified is an exact clone, there are no differences, sorry, but that's how all this wonderful digital stuff works, there is no room for even 0.1% error, the data would likely be corrupted.
So no you are wrong, if the file copies correctly (which the operating system will ensure) then the two copies are identical, this works with CAD files, photos, documents and every other thing stored as digital data.
Quote:
That very tiny error rate may occur each time the file is copied on malfunctioning defective media and/or a very poorly functioning computer. Else, no error.
Wrong

Last edited by marce; 30th June 2013 at 07:49 AM.
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Old 1st July 2013, 04:12 AM   #482
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Although we should never assume that technology 100% perfect in all conditions, and go without backups, which would be a silly risk. . . it is also true that the majority of this thread deals with playback error, not data integrity error.
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Old 1st July 2013, 07:14 AM   #483
marce is offline marce  United Kingdom
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Sorry to be rather harsh in my reply, but we are talking about identical bit map files sounding different. I know that no hardware is 100% reliable, but I have done both electronic CAD and mechanical CAD for 25+ years and these days it is a shock when a file gets corrupted or damaged during copying etc, whereas 15+ years ago it was much more common ( but even then not an everyday occurrence). Mechanical means of playback, CD DVD are flawed and can give rise to errors, though even these means these days are much more reliable than they use to be.
I believe a lot of peoples perceptions that digital is bad is a hangover from the early days, and probably extra noise from poorly integrated interfaces.
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Old 2nd July 2013, 11:02 AM   #484
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Hi

Just echoing what Pano said about SSD and HDD... datafiles/checksum maybe the same but playback may be different.

Has anyone here considered between distance of your hard drive and your speakers.

True that many people here have done some form of checksum experiment. Maybe we should repeat the experiment with the HDD placed on top of a subwoofer.

I remember someone in the hard drive industry commented, the relationship between the magnetic head and the platter is like flying a supersonic jet 1 meter above ground. Now of course if the ground is having an earthquake (maybe a REL, Pun intended)

I am not on either camps, I am just offering a different possibility on the cause the vibration caused by sound (come on guys, we are in Diyaudio, we are not going to listen to music at 60dB) causes error in the reading of databits from the platter. We would not have observed it normally because subwoofers are genarally not allowed in office (at least in mine..)

Seriously though it might not be the sub that would tickle the HDD, it could higher frequency stuff as well as long as they hit the resonant frequency of the arm/platter/GMR head... who knows...

Oon
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Old 2nd July 2013, 11:33 AM   #485
SY is offline SY  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oon_the_kid View Post
True that many people here have done some form of checksum experiment. Maybe we should repeat the experiment with the HDD placed on top of a subwoofer.
My laptop works fine in moving cars, trains, and airplanes.

I'd be FAR more worried about HDD corruption by the woofer's magnetic field!

When someone shows actual EVIDENCE of any sonic differences between media, then it's worth a look. Otherwise, it's all handwaving (a very popular occupation among fashion audio aficionados).
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Old 2nd July 2013, 11:36 AM   #486
marce is offline marce  United Kingdom
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Nope,
the operating system checks the data as it comes of the disk, it is buffered in memory then transmitted through the odd buffer to the output to your DAC.
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Old 2nd July 2013, 12:17 PM   #487
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oon_the_kid View Post
True that many people here have done some form of checksum experiment. Maybe we should repeat the experiment with the HDD placed on top of a subwoofer.
There was a story a couple of years back about an IT installation's HDDs being upset by vibration. Not so much as to cause any data errors rather the drives' throughput slowed down noticeably due to suffering many more retries on seeks.
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Old 2nd July 2013, 06:34 PM   #488
benb is offline benb  United States
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Inability to read the hard drive (in time to get the data through the buffering and to the DAC) will result in stuttering and other obvious problems, not the subtle differences that I recall were claimed earlier in the thread. Hard disk data that's been modified or changed in any way doesn't get through, very much unlike what a CD player does.
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Old 3rd July 2013, 05:15 PM   #489
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielwritesbac View Post
Although we should never assume that technology 100% perfect in all conditions, and go without backups, which would be a silly risk. . . it is also true that the majority of this thread deals with playback error, not data integrity error.
You SHOULD assume it's 100% perfect - right now - but your drive may fail tomorrow. THAT'S why you want a backup.

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Old 4th July 2013, 03:37 AM   #490
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benb View Post
Inability to read the hard drive (in time to get the data through the buffering and to the DAC) will result in stuttering and other obvious problems, not the subtle differences that I recall were claimed earlier in the thread. Hard disk data that's been modified or changed in any way doesn't get through, very much unlike what a CD player does.
Something would have to be VERY SERIOUSLY messed up for that to happen. I routinely run 2 HDTV recording events each of which needs 2.5 MBytes / second. Redbook audio needs under 180 KBytes.

Next question. Why do you all assume only the LSB might be damaged ? Statistically any bit _could_ get messed up. I can tell you that an incorrect MSB will be noticed by all. The bottom line is that corrupted data is very rare in a properly operating system.

Your CD player can reconstruct a limited number of errors per block of data and the corrections are perfect. If there are more errors it will interpolate and that will be very subtle. Too many errors and it will be not so good. That same disc used as a 'data carrier' can store 700 MBytes but as an 80 minute audio disc you will listen to 846 MByte of audio data. The 'lost' 146 MBytes are used for error correction. 'Interpolation' isn't terrible for audio but 1 bad bit in the right opcode can crash the program.

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