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Old 26th November 2010, 11:55 PM   #21
TerryO is online now TerryO  United States
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Originally Posted by sandyK View Post
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Big Snip~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
There are also numerous reports of laptops' audio sounding much better when they are run off internal batteries.
SandyK
Sandy,

We've come to the same conclusion, and there are several that insist that one should kill the screen before playing the Music, as it also cuts down some more noise.
Quite frankly, the Software Engineers were the one's that had the hardest time believing it...that is, until they had enough listening comparisons where they finally could no long have a contrary opinion. There's been some tentative theories as to why many of these things take place, but so far, AFAIK, there isn't any general agreement why there are differences.

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Old 27th November 2010, 04:08 AM   #22
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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I have no trouble believing this at all. But it has nothing to do with the file, or the rip.

If the checksum is the same, the file is the same, period. However, that does not mean that playback is the same. Noise and other problems can be different in different systems.

Ripping to a HDD or USB device makes no difference if the rip is done correctly (not hard). You can even move that file across local or international networks. It remains the same.

The file and the playback of the file are 2 different things. You have to be talking about playback, if a difference is heard. Can system noise get into the playback? Sure. Can it get into the file itself? Not likely. If it did, the checksum would tell you so. Test it for yourself if you don't believe me.
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Old 27th November 2010, 04:37 AM   #23
sandyK is offline sandyK  Australia
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Ripping to a HDD or USB device makes no difference if the rip is done correctly (not hard). You can even move that file across local or international networks. It remains the same.
Michael, perhaps you should try ripping to a USB pen using a Linear PSU instead of the noisy internal +5V USB supply ?
Yes, you can move the file across local or International networks, but the moment that another PC enters the equation to retransmit it, the file is degraded due to PSU induced "Jitter". Interestingly,high resolution commercially made .flac files from the likes of Linn Records and HDD tracks, do not appear to degrade when moved around like .wav files do.

SandyK

Last edited by sandyK; 27th November 2010 at 04:41 AM.
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Old 27th November 2010, 07:16 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by sandyK View Post
Michael, perhaps you should try ripping to a USB pen using a Linear PSU instead of the noisy internal +5V USB supply ?
Yes, you can move the file across local or International networks, but the moment that another PC enters the equation to retransmit it, the file is degraded due to PSU induced "Jitter". Interestingly,high resolution commercially made .flac files from the likes of Linn Records and HDD tracks, do not appear to degrade when moved around like .wav files do.

SandyK
Hi Sandy,

You are objectively wrong.

If there were problems with data corruption because of unclean +5V lines then we'd have bigger problems than loss of fidelity. It would mean that the files you store on the drive would be broken.
There is no dfference between storing on a hard drive, pen drive, SSD, clean 5V, dirty 5v, PWM fans or no PWM fans if you rip it correctly.

If you rip it correctly the file will be exactly the same every time.
There is no difference, period.

You seem to give different media different subjective properties which simply do not exist. What you're proposing is all voodoo.
Data is data. End of story.
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Old 27th November 2010, 07:40 AM   #25
sandyK is offline sandyK  Australia
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Originally Posted by mace1337 View Post
Hi Sandy,

You are objectively wrong.

If there were problems with data corruption because of unclean +5V lines then we'd have bigger problems than loss of fidelity. It would mean that the files you store on the drive would be broken.
There is no dfference between storing on a hard drive, pen drive, SSD, clean 5V, dirty 5v, PWM fans or no PWM fans if you rip it correctly.

If you rip it correctly the file will be exactly the same every time.
There is no difference, period.

You seem to give different media different subjective properties which simply do not exist. What you're proposing is all voodoo.
Data is data. End of story.
mace 1337
Instead of spouting stuff you learnt in a textbook years ago , why don't you try it for yourself ? There are MANY people worldwide who will tell you the same.
I guess that you even believe that all CD/DVD players sound the same when used as transports, or that all copies of CDs must sound the same ?
Terry O and other members of his Audio club, which includes software designers, will tell you they don't !
There are quite a few DIYAudio members in Sydney and the U.K. , Spain, and the U.S.A. who have also been able to pick differences between uploaded .wav files with identical checksums.Power supply induced "Jitter"is a likely cause.
Peter St. who is the lead designer of XXHE software, which plays music files from system memory, is even using different versions of his "engine" where the sound can be quite different between different versions, but the checksums are still identical !

SandyK

XXHighEnd - Index (XXHE)

Last edited by sandyK; 27th November 2010 at 07:46 AM.
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Old 27th November 2010, 08:03 AM   #26
Calvin is offline Calvin  Germany
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Hi,

this is a effect we experienced in our workshops too. From USB-stick over HDD to SSD the audiance regularly heard an improvement in sonic quality.
Now are these no statistically valid blinded tests, but from the number of listeners auditing different setups in different locations and still coming to equal findings, there must be a spark fanning the fire. Admittedly the differences are very small -probabely not noticeable on 90% of all equipment- but Iīm convinced they are there. I donīt have an explanation for this, that I could wholeheartedly support. My assumption is that it may be correlated to the power supply lines.

jauu
Calvin

ps. Isnīt this becoming too OT?
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Old 27th November 2010, 08:21 AM   #27
SY is offline SY  United States
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Now are these no statistically valid blinded tests, but from the number of listeners auditing different setups in different locations and still coming to equal findings, there must be a spark fanning the fire.
Indeed there is.
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Old 27th November 2010, 09:45 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by sandyK View Post
Interestingly,high resolution commercially made .flac files from the likes of Linn Records and HDD tracks, do not appear to degrade when moved around like .wav files do.


SandyK

As much as i would defend the validity of anyone's listening experience, the above quote makes no sense whatsoever.

I do agree that file format, media, player software, OS, hardware specs all make a difference when playing but the claim that bit-identical files can sound different simply has no physical foundation.

And encoding as flac suddenly renders the files immune?
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Old 27th November 2010, 10:19 AM   #29
sandyK is offline sandyK  Australia
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I do agree that file format, media, player software, OS, hardware specs all make a difference when playing but the claim that bit-identical files can sound different simply has no physical foundation.
analog_sa
That is not what many DiYAudio, Rock Grotto, and several Computer Audiophile members have found.
Do you really believe that all CD/DVD transports sound the same when feeding a DAC, or that all CD copies must sound identical if accurately ripped ? ?
If you don't, then surely you do not believe that the digital output of these players, with all the error correction that so many members here claim is nigh on perfect, are outputting different binary streams via their digital outputs ?
Many people will attest that even placing a Transport on a good isolation platform can improve SQ.
Peter St. , the lead designer of XXHE was attacked by several CA members for daring to report that he could hear differences between uploaded .wav files with identical checksums. Now, he routinely adjusts the tonality of files with identical check sums , in the various iterations of the XXHE software.
Why don't you check out his site ?
XXHighEnd - Index.

SandyK
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Old 27th November 2010, 12:41 PM   #30
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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Sandy, please remember this is about playback, not the actual file.
Files ripped to HD, NAT or USB pen show no difference whatsoever in my tests. (And in other peoples tests).

Now playback is a different thing. If the power supply is being polluted by noise from a motor, that could get into the playback.

Two different things.

Don't believe it? Try it. Rip a file to HDD then move a copy of it to USB stick. Listen to both. Do they sound different? If they really do, then it is NOT the file. It's noise in the system effecting the analog side. Find out where to noise is coming from and you'll be ahead of the game.
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