Additional digital output on Teac VRDS players

[SisterOfMercy]

Hello,

I think most of you are familiar with the Teac VRDS cd players/transports. They are also used by Wadia in their cd players.

Currently my cd-playback is far worse than vinyl playback, and my turntable is very old. So, time to upgrade.

I really would like a seperate cd-transport with a teac vrds transport. Unfortunately, a second-hand wadia is a bit too expensive for me. So, I might opt for a Teac VRDS-10 or -7 (or a T-1).

My question is: Is it possible to add an true AES/EBU digital output to Teac VRDS players? As wadia uses the same transports, with AES/EBU outputs, I think it's very likely that it can be hooked up somewhere. I would like to know if any of you know if this is possible, and if so, how.

If anyone can give me information on what vrds player to avoid, or to get, that is also appreciated.

And oh yeah, I'm planning to run it with an outbord dac, a parasound dac-1600hd, if I can find one..

Thanks in advance,

Terry.

 

[Guido Tent]

Hello,

I think most of you are familiar with the Teac VRDS cd players/transports. They are also used by Wadia in their cd players.

Currently my cd-playback is far worse than vinyl playback, and my turntable is very old. So, time to upgrade.

I really would like a seperate cd-transport with a teac vrds transport. Unfortunately, a second-hand wadia is a bit too expensive for me. So, I might opt for a Teac VRDS-10 or -7 (or a T-1).

My question is: Is it possible to add an true AES/EBU digital output to Teac VRDS players? As wadia uses the same transports, with AES/EBU outputs, I think it's very likely that it can be hooked up somewhere. I would like to know if any of you know if this is possible, and if so, how.

If anyone can give me information on what vrds player to avoid, or to get, that is also appreciated.

And oh yeah, I'm planning to run it with an outbord dac, a parasound dac-1600hd, if I can find one..

Thanks in advance,

Terry.

Terry,

I use a 10 for 8 years now. I'd reccomend a T1 or a 10. i modified many TEACs, for friends and customers. They are great machines but need attention.

At the risk of being too commercial: I offer a new clock board with additional reclocking to add a secondary digital output.

regards

 

[SisterOfMercy]

Thanks Guido,

Do you know if the T-1 is transport-wise the same as the VRDS-10, or are there huge differences? If not, I think I'll get the 10, as I don't have a dac yet.

I am also curious why they need attention? Do they have a lot of untapped potential in their unmodified form?

A new clock would also be very nice, but if the dac has a reclocking feature this wouldn't be necessary? Also, is this digital output a aes/ebu balanced version, taken from the transport as soon as possible?

 

[Guido Tent]

Thanks Guido,

Do you know if the T-1 is transport-wise the same as the VRDS-10, or are there huge differences? If not, I think I'll get the 10, as I don't have a dac yet.

I am also curious why they need attention? Do they have a lot of untapped potential in their unmodified form?

A new clock would also be very nice, but if the dac has a reclocking feature this wouldn't be necessary? Also, is this digital output a aes/ebu balanced version, taken from the transport as soon as possible?

Hi

The T1 has a spin off transport from the 10, like used in the 8 and the 9 (avoid the 9, terrible to work on constructionwise)

Off the shelf, I prefer the sound of the 1 over that of the 10, small difference though.

These drives can be made to something that realy smokes aCEC, to mention one.

Reclocking SPDIF is ALWAYS helpful, the lower the jitter that enters the DAC, the better.

The digital output is SPDIF, 75 ohm. AES / EBU is only used in studio's, uses XLR for RF transport, niot my cup of tea......

I propose true 75 BNC connectors and interface for digital, in home use. Works very fine when done right.

The signal is taken of the decoder, then reclocked and buffered, goes through a transformer and is then ready to enter your DAC.

all the best

 

[SisterOfMercy]

Thanks,

You are right about using 75 ohm BNC plugs. But I have seen a lot of (expensive) transports and dacs that use the AES/EBU interface.
I might opt for the SPdif interface then.. I still think a balanced connection will provide more benefits, if properly implemented.

Speaking of balanced.. Do you know if the 10 has a balanced analog output?
Also, do you have a site with information about your clock?

 

[Guido Tent]

Thanks,

You are right about using 75 ohm BNC plugs. But I have seen a lot of (expensive) transports and dacs that use the AES/EBU interface.
I might opt for the SPdif interface then.. I still think a balanced connection will provide more benefits, if properly implemented.

Speaking of balanced.. Do you know if the 10 has a balanced analog output?
Also, do you have a site with information about your clock?

Hi

Audio industry is a weird industry. They run after standard applications of semiconductors industry and put price tags on it - no guarantee for good sound...........

The 10 has a single ended output which sound lousy to my ears (that is why I designed my own DAC and clocks)

My experience is that the extra electronics needed for balancing spoils the overall performance.....

No website yet, but mail me offline for more info

regards

 

[fmak]

Thanks Guido,

Do you know if the T-1 is transport-wise the same as the VRDS-10, or are there huge differences? If not, I think I'll get the 10, as I don't have a dac yet.

----------------------------------------
Consider the VRDS 20 also. Built like a tank. Mine sounds v good with LC Clock.

 

[Guido Tent]

----------------------------------------
Consider the VRDS 20 also. Built like a tank. Mine sounds v good with LC Clock.

Hi

A 20 is "just" a 10, some more expensive components, as far as I know.

If you look for a drive only, I'd go for a T1 or a 10, do not pa anything more than that.

The LC clock I measured looks like an FM receiver........

best regards

Guido

 

[5th element]

This may go against the "audiophile rules" but try using your computer as a transport and take the digital outs off the sound card into your hifi's DAC. I have the T-1 and D-T1 combo and this sounds good.

I had read a few times in hifi news about the benafits of using a PC to replay digital audio. (This is only if you use something like Windac to copy the CD to your harddrive and then something like FooBar2k as a player). It all revolves around the way a computer handles data, it buffers it all then uses it. Im not 100% sure about the pros but its something like it gives a jitter free and perfect data stream with no errors to the dac. Anyway I tried this using a PC as the transport thru the D1 and the difference was clearly there the PC sounded better no arguement.

I copied strauss 4 last songs and some Ella Fitzgerrald and then played it for my mums consumption. When I make some simple minor changes to the hifi I can hear them and she cant. Basically she commented on how stupid the hifi industry is as the total PC cost £300 and the TEAC £550, but the PC clearly sounded that much better.

The best bit is that you all have PC's and most will have a digital out. FooBar2k and windac can be d/l for free so this little test doesnt cost you a penny. Oh and btw if u use the standard 3.5mm to phono lead you need to use the left channel (the white one plug) into the DAC or no sound will result or if that fails the right . One other comment soundcards upsample everything to 48K then send it to the DAC. Soundblaster lives are shoddy upsamplers. FoorBar has a real time upsampler that uses your comps power to do this so the soundcard doesnt have to. One problem with this tho is it takes a reasonable ammount of power. The comp I use atm is a 300megahtz and cant do the upsample, the comp im typin on is 900 and can. But the 300 still sounds better then the T1 regardless of its "shoddy" upsampling.

 

[SisterOfMercy]

Using my PC isn't really an option, it's mostly being used by my girlfriend. Also, I'd need to buy a bigger harddisk (laptop eh), to fit a few cd's on. That'll be about as expensive as a t-1..

 

[5th element]

yeah but the comp is better........ and you get a comp as a bonus.....

 

[fmak]

Hi

A 20 is "just" a 10, some more expensive components, as far as I know.
------------------------------------------------
The 20 is better built and second hand values low. The drive is also superior, I think.

------------------------------------------------
The LC clock I measured looks like an FM receiver........
-------------------------------------------------

I am aware that there may be problems. In the VRDS 20, the LC clock can be mounted directly on top of the pcb at the clock input and I did not have a problem.

Guido, when you say the LC Clock measures like an FM receiver, do you mean a transmitter or do you mean that it ouputs ultra sonic frequencies?
-------------------------------------------------



This may go against the "audiophile rules" but try using your computer as a transport and take the digital outs off the sound card into your hifi's DAC. I have the T-1 and D-T1 combo and this sounds good.

----------------------------------------------------

There are two problems with using a computer as source. One is the noise of the order of 50dBC and the other is a relatively poor digital output. There is also the noise from the cdrom which in some cases is rather intrusive.

You can overcome this with a slow C3 or slower PII unit without a fan, and relocking the output. My painstaking foray into making a low noise hifi computer with 'fast processors' and external dejitter/dac units was not a success in hifi terms. The best I could rate it is mid fi and quite listenable on dvd video and audio.

 

[Guido Tent]

The 20 is better built and second hand values low. The drive is also superior, I think.

------------------------------------------------
The LC clock I measured looks like an FM receiver........
-------------------------------------------------

I am aware that there may be problems. In the VRDS 20, the LC clock can be mounted directly on top of the pcb at the clock input and I did not have a problem.

Guido, when you say the LC Clock measures like an FM receiver, do you mean a transmitter or do you mean that it ouputs ultra sonic frequencies?
-------------------------------------------------

This may go against the "audiophile rules" but try using your computer as a transport and take the digital outs off the sound card into your hifi's DAC. I have the T-1 and D-T1 combo and this sounds good.

----------------------------------------------------

There are two problems with using a computer as source. One is the noise of the order of 50dBC and the other is a relatively poor digital output. There is also the noise from the cdrom which in some cases is rather intrusive.

You can overcome this with a slow C3 or slower PII unit without a fan, and relocking the output. My painstaking foray into making a low noise hifi computer with 'fast processors' and external dejitter/dac units was not a success in hifi terms. The best I could rate it is mid fi and quite listenable on dvd video and audio.

Fred, others,

I still assume the 20 uses the same drive, servo and supplies as the 10. Is that correct ?

LC clock: I did spectrum measurements on an LC2. Its shows loads of spurious, acts as a receiver. In my opinion it should be clean, at least up to -80dB.

It also shows 100Hz at -65dB. One my argue that it is the measurement environment but my own clock in the same setup is absolutely clean untill -80dB

I will measure on the jitter as well, yet have to set up my HP53310A.

PC as a drive: I agree with Fred, forget about it, no serious stuff. Too much acoustical and electrical noise there

Will measure jitter at the SPDIF once, but I wouldn't be surprised if........

enjoy the weekend

 

[Audiofanatic]

Hi Terry, Guido & others,

I agree with Guido!
The VRDS Transports are good, you often buy a good second hand VRDS for less than a new cheap one.
I have the VRDS 7 and a VRDS 25X, use to have a Wadia 8/15 combination. The VRDS 25X has a better Transport than the Wadia 8.
The VRDS 25X uses the same transport as the Wadia 20.
I'm planning in making a Digi out for my VRDS 25X ala Wadia 20.
But my problem is, I don't know how to make it. I know what the Wadia 20 uses but the parts are hard to find in the netherlands.

If I succeed, Ill post my findings on the forum.
For now, I hope to find something usefull on this forum.

BTW, Guido, what is the price of you'r reclocking board with (if I read it right) the digi output for a VRDS transport?

Best regards,


Audiofanatic

P.S. Terry, I may sell my VRDS 7 if you'r interested.

 

[Guido Tent]

Hi Terry, Guido & others,

I agree with Guido!
The VRDS Transports are good, you often buy a good second hand VRDS for less than a new cheap one.
I have the VRDS 7 and a VRDS 25X, use to have a Wadia 8/15 combination. The VRDS 25X has a better Transport than the Wadia 8.
The VRDS 25X uses the same transport as the Wadia 20.
I'm planning in making a Digi out for my VRDS 25X ala Wadia 20.
But my problem is, I don't know how to make it. I know what the Wadia 20 uses but the parts are hard to find in the netherlands.

If I succeed, Ill post my findings on the forum.
For now, I hope to find something usefull on this forum.

BTW, Guido, what is the price of you'r reclocking board with (if I read it right) the digi output for a VRDS transport?

Best regards,


Audiofanatic

P.S. Terry, I may sell my VRDS 7 if you'r interested.

Hi

The 7 uses another drive as the 10, 20, 25, if I am right. The 25 is different as it uses a different clock frequency.

What is special on the Wadia output ?

My board (XO3) costs 129 euro

regards

 

[fmak]

Hi

The 7 uses another drive as the 10, 20, 25, if I am right. The 25 is different as it uses a different clock frequency.

--------------------------------------------------
TEAC had evolved design from a copper/brass to aluminium alloy and then to resin fior the drive. The 20 has the aluminium one. The later series has resin. All this from memory of some years back.

 

[Guido Tent]

--------------------------------------------------
TEAC had evolved design from a copper/brass to aluminium alloy and then to resin fior the drive. The 20 has the aluminium one. The later series has resin. All this from memory of some years back.

Hi Fred

Correct, the 10 uses alumium as well (damp it using Bostik, great fun)

The 10 and 20 and 25 use a brushless motor, the 8,9 and T1 do no. Their motors produce a lot of RF noise. I always:

- Connect 2 caps (1nF each) from motor connections to ground (motor, chasis, anything close)

- Add an RF common mode choke in series with the motor supply

It helps, I measured lower jitter at the SPDIF output.......

all the best

 

[Audiofanatic]

You'r right Guido, the 25X uses a brushless motor the 7 uses a brushed motor.
The 25X uses a fiber bridge and the 7 uses a metal one with a rubber damping isolation pad on top of it.

The best transport TEAC ever made is the T70 transport.
It's also the most expensive one. If you can buy a T70 transport you can buy a second hand Wadia.



I know the wadia 8/15/20/21/26/12/and a few others, I don't remember any more.

Basicly, if you have a TEAC VRDS X or XX and you make an aluminum case and a few mods, than you'll have a Wadia for less $$$$.

Thats, why I sold my 8/15 combination and bought a VRDS 25X.

Guido, is your XO3 a DIY kit? Like the Kwak clock?


Regards,

Audiofanatic

 

[Guido Tent]

The best transport TEAC ever made is the T70 transport.
It's also the most expensive one. If you can buy a T70 transport you can buy a second hand Wadia.

Basicly, if you have a TEAC VRDS X or XX and you make an aluminum case and a few mods, than you'll have a Wadia for less $$$$.

Thats, why I sold my 8/15 combination and bought a VRDS 25X.

Guido, is your XO3 a DIY kit? Like the Kwak clock?

Regards,

Audiofanatic

Hi

Impressive picture !

I never knew the 70, will look for it

XO3: Fully build, tested adjusted and warranted for 5 years

best regards

 

[SisterOfMercy]

I think it's called the P-70, costs about 8000 euro.