I2S digital output in Marantz CD4000 and four TDA1541A with balance analog output

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Q#1: Does anyone know if the VAM1201 cd mechanisam (Short Loader Mk3 module) as in Marantz CD4000 cd player and Philips CD713/723, has I2S digital audio output or not for sure?
Q#2: Is it possible to build a dual differential nonoversampling fiterless DAC with two or more TDA1541As per channel, and if not, how to build balance output stage (passive or active I/V conversion) for nonos DAC? Shematics will be much appreciated!
Thank you all in advance.
Ivo
 
hi iklari14

yes. the short loader mk3 has i2s output. better still, it's jumper configurable to 1xfs, 2xfs and so on.

read about it here.
http://www.daisy-laser.com/shortloader.htm

one of the pdf files there shows you where to tap the i2s signal. if you are lazy, you can tap from the dac board. the i2s signal goes to tda1545.

i have tapped the i2s in my cd63 and put in a tda1543. good luck!

DonJuan
 
Hi DonJuan and Elso,
Thank you both for quick reply, I am going to buy a Marantz CD4000 now (champagne edition of course, don't worry). Considering the threads suggested, they are way too techical for me, because my knowledge of electronics is fairly limited. Implementation (read complete project, shematics, pcbs, etc.) of someones artwork, talent and philosophy is the only way for me and many others, I guess!
So, here is my e-mail ivo.klaric@st.htnet.hr if someone is able to help me in more direct and comprehensive way.
Regards, Ivo
 
Konnichiwa,

iklari14 said:
Q#1: Does anyone know if the VAM1201 cd mechanisam (Short Loader Mk3 module) as in Marantz CD4000 cd player and Philips CD713/723, has I2S digital audio output or not for sure?

The mechanism as such does not has ANY output. It needs to be processed by the chipset (servo/decoder IC).

If the CD-Player (Marantz CD-4000 and MAYBE [not sure] 5000 plus Philips CD-713/23 et al) uses a DAC with no build in oversampling filter the servo/decoder chip is instructed by the control uP to perform 4 X Oversampling. The Output is still I2S, but at 4 X Fs, oversampled.

Unless the uP (SMD) is removed and replaced with onde differently (factory) programmed the I2S output stream from the chipset will allways be oversampled.

iklari14 said:
Q#2: Is it possible to build a dual differential nonoversampling fiterless DAC with two or more TDA1541As per channel,

Sure. Easily. Just design and build it.

Technically there are no hurdles, as long as you have a non-oversampled I2S or japanese format signal to tap off in the transport. And of course you can use as many TDA1541 per channel - dual differential as you can fit (with their individual 14pcs of capacitors) in the space available.

Sayonara
 
If the CD-Player (Marantz CD-4000 and MAYBE [not sure] 5000 plus Philips CD-713/23 et al) uses a DAC with no build in oversampling filter the servo/decoder chip is instructed by the control uP to perform 4 X Oversampling. The Output is still I2S, but at 4 X Fs, oversampled.

really? if you download aslmk39901.pdf from daisy website, page 3 says

"since the short loader mk3 module does not include any d/a converter on board, you can use an external dac of your choice. all our applications allow to set the dac output format to one out of nine different values. but now, you can directly choose the format required for your dac by setting the pins p1.5, p1.6, p1.7 and p3.2 of the user microcontroller to +5v or ground, as specified in the table below (software does not have to be modified anymore!)"

then it goes to show that the table lists for i2s, 1xfs format, you have to set p3.2, p1.7, p1.6, p1.5 to ground.

btw, default mode is i2s 1xfs.

DonJuan
 
Kuei Yang Wang said:
Konnichiwa,



Does the Shortloader kit from Daisy use the SAME pcb and same uP as the CD 4000? I rather very much doubt it.

Hi KYW and DonJuan,
I am really flattered because you jump in( I allways read yours threads with great attention), and hope you are wrong and DonJuan right (thank you DJ for pointing out the application note from Daisy). It seems that only Short Loader Mk3 have ability to let user to choose output format (I2S 1xFs I hear screams from crowd) without much fuss, while Short Loader Mk2 needs some programing involved (to complex). Anyway, we all have to wait for a few days until Marantz CD4000 arrive aren't we?
In the mean time any serviceable shematics for DAC will be much appreciate, thank you!
Ivo
 
Hi Guido,
Nice to have you around indeed! I am searching this section, no luck yet.
I am not going to use CS8412/8414 input receiver or any other, I will drive TDA1541As directly from Philips Short Loader Mk3 module
(if that one is inside Marantz CD4000) I2S digital output port.
What is a fifo part????

Servus, Ivo
 
Think we have some jitter, i'm not G.Tent....

Fifo = first in, first out. It is a device with say 1k memory cells which can be filled from 1 side and after 1k clock cycles the data appears on the other side of the 1k memory.

The one i used has 2 clocks, one for writing and one for reading.
Put the xtal near the dac and feed it back to the player. Does not matter what is in between them then, the fifo will eliminate any timing problems and jitter from the interface.

I used the ~11 MHz xtal which can be found in the older philips players. Your Marantz might already be ~16MHz.

Anyway, the link:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=8614&perpage=15&pagenumber=1

Search on 'guido' in digital and it is on page 2..

Now if i only had time to finish this thing...

Greetings,
Guido
 
I2S from CD4000

Sorry Don Juan and Ivo

News is bad

I have a CD4000 and unfortunately you cannot get I2S signal out nor can you put it into no oversampled mode except by downloading code on microcontroller debugging it and changing it.

I looked into this quite extensively and Kuei is right - PCB in CD4000 is not the same as Daisy short loader pcb - I would have liked to be able to select settings by jumpers also but no go.

If you ever figure out how to do this let me know

John
 
The only option left is to take the spdif signal internally and feed it to a 8412 or similar. Like building the DAC internally.

This could make sence if you do it with clock feedback from the DAC to the CDP and the fifo inbetween. This would mean that you still have a one-box solution and that the spdif part inside should not have an influence...

Far fetched, but possible...

Greetings,
Guido
 
Wellcome on board jkeny,

Sorry to hear that, but don't warry jkeny, I will never harm a messenger even the news is really bad one. Thank you jk.
But I have great confidance that someone, somehow will find a solution.
Please, don't leave me jet, you beautifull diy-ers, I need you now more then ever!
I will never surrender although a resistance is futile!
How about you?
Ivo
 
CD4000

I have been interested in trying to hijack the CD4000 microcontroller for a while now. Problem is I originally thought that it could be over-ridden using DSA commands from a PC program linked to CD4000.

It seems microcontroller does not communicate with SAA7378 digital filter in CD4000(where modes and sampling rates are set) through DSA commands.

Ther are two other possibilities - it uses 4 wire protocol or it uses I2C command control - does anybody know which?

John
 
Re: CD4000

jkeny said:
I have been interested in trying to hijack the CD4000 microcontroller for a while now. Problem is I originally thought that it could be over-ridden using DSA commands from a PC program linked to CD4000.

It seems microcontroller does not communicate with SAA7378 digital filter in CD4000(where modes and sampling rates are set) through DSA commands.

Ther are two other possibilities - it uses 4 wire protocol or it uses I2C command control - does anybody know which?

John


The SAA7378 datasheet will tell you which but as Philips invented I2C.........

ray.
 
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