Accuphase DP65/Sony - KSS 272A laser head

[markaudio]

Hi Guys,
I've got an Accuphase DP65 player. While its working fine now, Id like to start collecting spares in the coming months. Like me, this CD player is no "spring chicken" but its sure a nice unit, I'd like to do what can be done to keep it operational.

Wondering if anyone can offer advice on possible alternative laser Sony KSS 272A laser head. They're like moon dust, pretty much impossible to replace. I've searched hi and low but as yet, no one has been able to supply this part.

You advice, thoughts, suggestion, ideas all very welcome.

Cheers

Mark.

[tiefbassuebertr]

I also need some laser heads (optical pick up) for SONY's Esprit (ES) series. Therefore I have start this threads:


Laser Diode Successor of SLD-104U for SONY ESPRIT KSS Series
Databook about SONY's KSS optical pick up series
All Diyaudio Threads about not available Optical Pickup's from Sony's KSS-Series

The aim therefore was the wish to get informations, but no data book title and no successor of the in those days from SONY's used laser tube I know.
If I know this, I will try to replace the laser tube (laser diode) itself.

Because you are from HongKong, it is for you much more easy to find out several things than for me, because you can ask in your own language instead in english.

In the meantime I have find out the manufacturer of all old Sony models between KSS-270A and KSS-274A-B. It is follow manufacturer:
Kyoshin Technosonic Co. Ltd.

their advertising slogan on their homepage is follow:
"SONY Devices - perfect Knowledge of Technology"

One old SONY laser head is still in production: The KSS-213C include mechanism - for download datasheet go to
Kyoshin Technosonic (Asia)

The laser tubes resp. laser diodes from this laser head and that one from KSS-270A until KSS-274A-B are no longer the same, but several successor types of the for me "bad quality" model "SLD-104U", go to
SLD104U datasheet, SLD104U datasheets, SLD104U datenblatt, SLD104U manual, SLD104U data sheets, SLD104U pdf - ALLDATASHEET.COM
This newer type must be mechanically and electrically compatible but does no longer come from SONY.
If I know the supplier of this laser diodes, I could ask there for order the appropriate types for change it through the muddy devices, that are inside in the KSS-270A until KSS-274A-B.

Perhaps you can find out this brand by inquiring there.

Another great and good known company there is:
Kss-210b,Kss-212a,Kss-240a,Khs-150a,Kss-151a,Kss-152a - Three Sixty Hong Kong Ltd
But the question for me is, whether this brand is a wholesaler or manufacturer. In last case you can also ask there. I recall, some years ago on this website all types between KSS-270A until KSS-274A-B has been offered. And currently you will find various SONY laser with same laser diode in use.
I am exited about the information you get - thank you very much for your efforts.

[rabbitz]

I'm in a similar position with a KSS270A which fortunately has only had little use. The closest spare I could get was a KSS151A which may or may not work. I'll only try that when absolutely necessary.

I did trial a KSS240A which required use of a different drive/sled and did play but would need a small amount of main board work to restore track navigation etc.

There's a lot of nice players out there going in the bin due to lack of laser support.

[markaudio]

Hi Guys,
Many thanks for these up-dates. I'll do some local investigation. Three-sixty is most likely a wholesaler. As I'm making my speakers in China, I know allot of factories but not those for laser heads.

There could be a outside possibility to have the 272A re-manufactured. But there are challenges. The factory (factories) will want volume (likely 500+ units). I'd need to find the complete spec. Also depends on who owns the IP and contractual rights (if any) to the 272A design, so this idea may not have little chance to work.

I'll ask about the 151 head. See if its possible to use this head.

Cheers

Mark.

[stephensank]

The easiest & cheapest way to get spare KSS272's is to buy Sony CDP-X33ES players. Sony made the horrible decision to use Elna Duorex lytics throughout the supply, dac & output stages, and these alway leak & damage the circuit board long before anything is remotely likely to go wrong with the laser. Even with good caps, these were not great sounding players, so no sacrifice to use them as donors.

[tiefbassuebertr]

Originally Posted by stephensank

The easiest & cheapest way to get spare KSS272's is to buy Sony CDP-X33ES players. Sony made the horrible decision to use Elna Duorex lytics throughout the supply, dac & output stages, and these alway leak & damage the circuit board long before anything is remotely likely to go wrong with the laser. Even with good caps, these were not great sounding players, so no sacrifice to use them as donors.

Are you sure, that KSS-270A and KSS-272A compatible (I haven't never see a CDP-X33ES equipped with KSS-272A)? Then this is a good idea. From the electrical circuit both optical pick up are the same (see attachement)
check out ebay item No 170461324469 and gallerie about this model:
CDP-X33ES

Originally Posted by markaudio

Hi Guys,
Many thanks for these up-dates. I'll do some local investigation. Three-sixty is most likely a wholesaler. As I'm making my speakers in China, I know allot of factories but not those for laser heads.

There could be a outside possibility to have the 272A re-manufactured. But there are challenges. The factory (factories) will want volume (likely 500+ units). I'd need to find the complete spec. Also depends on who owns the IP and contractual rights (if any) to the 272A design, so this idea may not have little chance to work.

I'll ask about the 151 head. See if its possible to use this head.

Cheers

Mark.

When we find such company, but cannot re-manufactured cause SONY's IP and contractual rights, then can investigate at least the appropriate successor type of the laser diode itself, that is still in production and not obsolete. In this case a restauration of the old ones is possible.

Regarded complete re-manufactured KSS-272A devices - I know German sercice centers, which would buy at least 1000 pieces. But the main condition is, that the quality standart is higher than by the old ones (optical pickups from all the other companies like JVC, Technics and Sanyo, even for the cheapest ghetto baster are much more better than SONY's KSS heads for ESPRIT compact disc players).
The main reason for SONY's bad quality are the plastic lens suspension and the laser tube (laser diode) SLD104U.

[Scorpio(DDMF)!]

Originally Posted by tiefbassuebertr

Are you sure, that KSS-270A and KSS-272A compatible (I haven't never see a CDP-X33ES equipped with KSS-272A)? Then this is a good idea. From the electrical circuit both optical pick up are the same (see attachment)

Just a word of warning:

Unfortunately, Sony's diagrams of their own pickups mostly don't correspond with the "conditions in the field". A good example are KSS-272A and KSS-271A which look (almost ) the same on the schematics, but in reality have a somewhat different APC circuits, which doesn't allow a "drop-in" replacement of one with another...

Cheers!

[stephensank]

I was going by memory, and recalled, probably incorrectly, that the last X33 I worked on had a 272, when it seems it must have had a 270. So, seems the cheapest deck that used the 272 is the X339ES, which are not nearly as common, but do come up now & then.
Personally, although I have seen a number of KSS151's fail, I have yet to see a KSS270/271/272 fail or even need tweaking, so you will hopefully never need one for your Accuphase.

[markaudio]

Originally Posted by stephensank

I was going by memory, and recalled, probably incorrectly, that the last X33 I worked on had a 272, when it seems it must have had a 270. So, seems the cheapest deck that used the 272 is the X339ES, which are not nearly as common, but do come up now & then.
Personally, although I have seen a number of KSS151's fail, I have yet to see a KSS270/271/272 fail or even need tweaking, so you will hopefully never need one for your Accuphase.

Hi Stephen (and guys),
Many thanks for this up-date. I'm hoping the DP65 holds up. It's a really nice player, lovely natural sound, mates well with my Alpair 7 full range drivers (via Tony's 300B amp).

I've had to take a hit financially and buy an Accuphase DP67 for the studio to demo my speakers. Normally, I take the 65 from home to studio and back but fear all this transporting will do damage in the long run. I've invested in the DP67 (2006 model) mainly because its quite new, so spares should be readily available for the next few years. This player also sounds similar to the vintage 65 but with a bit more detail in the middle and high ranges.
The only downside is no facility to play SACD's but beggars can't be choosy when finances are a bit tight. The other down-side the 67's remote, cheap plastic compared to the solid aluminium case of the 65's unit. I'm guessing but suspect the 65's will last longer.
Accuphase have got a fab reputation here in Asia, being favoured for music demos by the better CD shops/sellers for their natural sound, strong power supplies, bullet proof build and long service life.

Given that I play CD's allot (5 hours or more most days), I perhaps was expecting too much of the vintage 65. Using the newer 67 takes the load off the 65 and gives me more time to source spares.

Curiously, Accuphase's model designations for their source components don't seem to be time sequential, at least not on the museum section of their main site. There seems to be several models with similar or higher designations in-between the DP-65 (1993) and DP-67 (2006). Ummmmph maybe I'm missing something?

Cheers

Mark.

[tiefbassuebertr]

Originally Posted by Scorpio(DDMF)!

Just a word of warning:

Unfortunately, Sony's diagrams of their own pickups mostly don't correspond with the "conditions in the field". A good example are KSS-272A and KSS-271A which look (almost ) the same on the schematics, but in reality have a somewhat different APC circuits, which doesn't allow a "drop-in" replacement of one with another...
Cheers!

Thank you for this interesting advice. Then my doubts from post #6 are justified (KSS270A vs. KSS272A).