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Old 20th September 2010, 03:46 PM   #141
Previously: Kuei Yang Wang
 
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Hi,

Quote:
Originally Posted by sampler View Post
Even then, I suspect that performance would be not up to the level with systems like m2tech, that clock's out i2s using dedicated vco.
M2Tech actually use a pair of XO's. Musland uses a single PLL from 24MHz.

The funny thing, despite doing things "the right way", it does not really net them lower jitter than the Musiland, at the output of the DAC it drives.

As so often, it seems it is less what you use, but the how that makes a lot of difference.

Now properly modified the M2Tech unit does show up better, but so does a modded Musiland.

Ciao T
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Old 20th September 2010, 04:08 PM   #142
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Default Using...

a pair of fixed oscillators is the way to go. As noted, the whole thing needs to be properly implemented for best performance though. The Hiface is limited by the power supplies, so mods to them lower the problems. Clean power supplies to the XO are paramount. This should be done the right way, without PLLs that just introduce additional jitter.
I still think it is possible to power this from USB power, given that great care is taken in cleaning it up, through filtering and regulation onboard. The phase noise numbers from the Audiophilleo unit suggest that USB power can be cleaned up quite well, and provide very high performance. The success (and jitter noise spectrum) of the Ayre QB-9 also supports this approach. Using USB power (with the choice to break out power from the board for paranoids) would make implementation into existing DACs much easier. I see no need for providing external clock sync, as long as onboard clocks are good, but perhaps there is no drawback in making this an option (trace impedance issues perhaps, RF guys?) External clocking seems superfluous if one gets the onboard clocks right.
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Old 20th September 2010, 04:21 PM   #143
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Ahhh... we are #1 (arguably) so why try harder. Ok, that's logical, but as I see it, there are no technical boundaries for them to implement this.
I think it is more to do with the costs. Material costs are minimal, but testing, manufacturing, marketing, sales, and everything that support them are very expensive, all for a product that will probably not drive many new sales. this is not to mention obsoleting the product they just spent a bunch of money on and have a large stock of.
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Old 20th September 2010, 04:28 PM   #144
sampler is offline sampler  Lithuania
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThorstenL View Post
The funny thing, despite doing things "the right way", it does not really net them lower jitter than the Musiland, at the output of the DAC it drives.

As so often, it seems it is less what you use, but the how that makes a lot of difference.
Final performance of system will always depend on the whole design. In terms of jitter, both interfaces performs acceptable when heavily moded. But to take it another step further one has to start worry about things like DAC's driving clock phase noise, residual jitter distribution nature and general EMI/RF garbage. From my point of view, this is only achievable by introducing some galvanic isolation from pc data downstream and reclocking with local superclock. Nothing new, basically it's the same and proven direction as CD transport guys are going for some time now. Without slavable pc interface, I don't see this happening.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThorstenL View Post
Now properly modified the M2Tech unit does show up better, but so does a modded Musiland.
Ciao T
Yeah, read your comments on audioasylium about musiland, also was watching jkeny's work on m2tech.
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Old 20th September 2010, 08:15 PM   #145
sampler is offline sampler  Lithuania
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianDonegan View Post
I think it is more to do with the costs. Material costs are minimal, but testing, manufacturing, marketing, sales, and everything that support them are very expensive, all for a product that will probably not drive many new sales. this is not to mention obsoleting the product they just spent a bunch of money on and have a large stock of.
Well, I perfectly understand this view from the other side of the fence, but c'mon, monitor 02 have been in market for year or so. I don't believe it would be such a financial tragedy by introducing new product. And for driving new sales, there is always marketing department But what I'm talking, they know better...

Now I must take the opportunity and ask about your x-mos based interface. Is it still under development ? Any preliminary release date ?
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Old 20th September 2010, 08:18 PM   #146
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Yes. No.
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Old 20th September 2010, 08:37 PM   #147
sampler is offline sampler  Lithuania
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Roger that. Over.
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Old 23rd September 2010, 12:33 PM   #148
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From: "Gerhard Sattel" <gerhard.sattel@rigisystems.net>
To: <webmaster@audiodesignguide.com>
Cc: "Marcel Dasen" <marcel.dasen@rigisystems.net>
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 12:21 PM
Subject: RE: Rigi Kontakt


> Dear Mrs. Ciuffoli
>
> Our USBPAL evaluation/reference board incl. evaluation SW is available on
> stock, however we have to charge US$ 330.- plus shipping for it. Let me
> know if you want to order, you can pay also by PAYPAL.
>
> Best regards
>
> Gerhard Sattel
>
> RigiSystems AG
> Gerhard Sattel
>
> Managing Director


Incredible 330$ !

I think that my solution with EMU0404 USB is the best

Hi-Resolution System 192KHz 24bit with EMU 0404 USB
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Old 23rd September 2010, 12:49 PM   #149
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Or an M2 Hiface + one input of this DAC2 link, without the DAC part + and you get 3 SPDIF inputs as bonus

It's a pity the designer didn't offered this as a kit, yet
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Old 20th October 2010, 10:08 AM   #150
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Default XMOS

Hello!

I'm wondering why nobody tried out an XMOS USB 2.0 audio reference design?
With the available schematics/pcb files it shouldn't be too hard to modify the reference design board to:
- have direct I2S output (remove the used DAC IC)
- connectors for external clocks (remove the ones on the board)
- connector for external 5V (do not feed the board from USB power)
As far as price is concerned I believe it wouldn't cost that much, being a two-layered board only.
Unfortunately I'm not accustomed with the used Mentor Graphics PADS cad tool.

Nobody tried this or did the above mods?
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