The dynamic range of 16 bits
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 17th June 2003, 10:58 PM #21 SY   On Hiatus     Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Chicagoland Christer, OUCH! __________________ "You tell me whar a man gits his corn pone, en I'll tell you what his 'pinions is."
 17th June 2003, 11:19 PM #22 Jocko Homo   Banned   Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: As far from the NOSsers as possible How can anyone take Bedini seriously????? I have an original press release for that log that we received. It is dated Feb. 31, 1991. I thought that April Fool's Day had come early that year. (For those who don't believe me......I think I still have it somewhere. Just don't make me look for it. Take my word this time.) Jocko
Steve Eddy
diyAudio Member

Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Sacramento, CA
Re: Binary two's complement

Quote:
 Originally posted by Fred Dieckmann From Burr Brown data sheet
Ok, so let's work it out.

Instead of being able to swing a full 6 volts, you can only swing (+2.999908) - (-3.000000) or 5.999908 volts. Maximum quantization noise is still going to be +/-1/2LSB. 1/2LSB here will be 0.000046 volts (0.000092/2) and since we're looking at a peak-to-peak signal swing, peak-to-peak quantization noise will be (+0.000046) - (-0.000046) or 0.000092 volts.

Going back to the triend and true definition of dynamic range as being the ratio of the noise floor to the maximum signal, we get:

20 x log (0.000092/5.999908) = 96.287135dB

If we were able to swing the full 6 volts, we'd get a dynamic range of:

20 x log (0.000092/6) = 96.287268dB

For a difference of 0.000133dB.

Yes?

se

Steve Eddy
diyAudio Member

Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Sacramento, CA
Re: How can anyone take Bedini seriously?????

Quote:
 Originally posted by Jocko Homo I have an original press release for that log that we received. It is dated Feb. 31, 1991. I thought that April Fool's Day had come early that year. (For those who don't believe me......I think I still have it somewhere. Just don't make me look for it. Take my word this time.)
Hehehe. Remember the RainTinge ad that came out I think in an April issue of Stereophile?

se

Fred Dieckmann
diyAudio Retiree

Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Spain or the pueblo of Los Angeles
10 will get me 20

The minimum AC signal the DAC can swing is 1 bit positive to 1 bit negative. Anyone who thinks the signal below is a sine wave should be happy to give me a 20 dollar bill in exchange for a ten using the same rational. Any takers? I hope that doesn't leave the least significant twit in a dither....
Attached Images
 sinewave.jpg (3.8 KB, 392 views)

 18th June 2003, 12:00 AM #26 SY   On Hiatus     Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Chicagoland Could you explain to me the reason why a DAC cannot swing from 0 to +1 LSB? Or the converse? My data books don't indicate that this is a restriction. Nor does the Burr Brown sheet you've posted. The drawing you show does not represent what happens when you do the 1 LSB swing and then run through the anti-imaging filter. But I'm sure you knew that. Nonetheless, the comedic effect could give people the wrong idea. __________________ "You tell me whar a man gits his corn pone, en I'll tell you what his 'pinions is."
 18th June 2003, 12:04 AM #27 Sandy H.   diyAudio Member     Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Charlotte, NC - USA In all seriousness. . . . . . you guys can really play with the uninformed guy's head! I followed the conversions from binary to base 10 (and hex, just for fun?) and understand the elementary version of how this corresponds to the -1 to +1V analog, but, being a young ME who has only the experience of 1 semester's (voluntary) coursework with an intro to digital electronics, I am easily lost between fact and tongue and cheek. Having said that, I am a fan of both Steve and Fred's brand of humor, but often it just goes over the ol' head. If anybody can suggest a somewhat readable textbook which would make me more comfortable in reading the digital section of this forum, I'd be glad to take the challenge and hopefully at least be a lurker here in the future. Honestly, though, you guys just scare me on occasion. After that, for dichotomy, a book on analog amplification might help me be able to view posts in the tubes forum. For clarification, I don't plan on being a contributor to either fora, as I think there is experience in both which I could not match with simple learning. Help!!! Sandy.
Steve Eddy
diyAudio Member

Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Sacramento, CA
Re: In all seriousness. . .

Quote:
 Originally posted by Sandy H. If anybody can suggest a somewhat readable textbook which would make me more comfortable in reading the digital section of this forum, I'd be glad to take the challenge and hopefully at least be a lurker here in the future.
I'd recommend Ken C. Pohlmann's Principles of Digital Audio, ISBN 0-07-134819-0.

se

Jocko Homo
Banned

Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: As far from the NOSsers as possible
My turn to pour gasoline on the fire....

This is directly from the '1702 data sheet......the oldest DAC that I have data on.

I assume that we don't have any Second Class Telephone Sanatizers here, and that everyone can do the math themselves.

(I really love these food fights......livens up an otherwise slow day.)

Jocko
Attached Images
 1702.gif (11.0 KB, 345 views)

 18th June 2003, 12:28 AM #30 Christer   diyAudio Member   Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Sweden What are you guys up to, posting a lot of DAC data? They just show what we already know, that the output voltage/current is a linear function of the digital input. Sure, it tells what the constant is for a particular DAC, but that is irrelevant to the qusstion of dynamic range of the digital medium.

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