I own a TEAC VRDS 10 which I use as a transport with Reimyo DAP777 dac.
I had compared the transport to one of the Philips CD Pro 2M transport and the results were interesting. The VRDS was better in almost every way except that the tones were some what more natural and fluid on the Philips. The tones on the VRDS were nice but resembled the real thing lesser than the Philips.
As far as I understand, both the transport mechanisms are very accurate and there should be no reason why the VRDS cannot retain the tone and timbre as well as the Philips. I see two basic areas that I can mod in my TEAC player.
1. Clock
2. SPDIF converter (going to a high quality after market converter).
For clock I know two brands Tent labs and Trichord research.
For the SPDIF converter, I found one on ebay, please see link:
eBay India: SPDIF Out Digital Upgrade für DVD/CD-Player (item 370303671982 end time 07-May-2010 17:21:19 IST)
Does this look any good compared to what is already inside the VRDS 10 ?
Since I am not a techie, I really do not know which upgrade will get me the thing I am looking for. In other words, I do not even know which upgrade will give me what kind of improvements. And also, if guys who have already tried these mods could tell me if my expectation from these mods are realistic or not, it will be very helpful.
To clarify further: I am not looking for more details, nor better soundstaging and imaging, nor anything related to transparency or dynamics. I am mainly looking for tonal purity, if other improvements piggy back with it I would not mind.
Please suggest. I really love the VRDS presentation and neutrality so I do not want to let it go.
I had compared the transport to one of the Philips CD Pro 2M transport and the results were interesting. The VRDS was better in almost every way except that the tones were some what more natural and fluid on the Philips. The tones on the VRDS were nice but resembled the real thing lesser than the Philips.
As far as I understand, both the transport mechanisms are very accurate and there should be no reason why the VRDS cannot retain the tone and timbre as well as the Philips. I see two basic areas that I can mod in my TEAC player.
1. Clock
2. SPDIF converter (going to a high quality after market converter).
For clock I know two brands Tent labs and Trichord research.
For the SPDIF converter, I found one on ebay, please see link:
eBay India: SPDIF Out Digital Upgrade für DVD/CD-Player (item 370303671982 end time 07-May-2010 17:21:19 IST)
Does this look any good compared to what is already inside the VRDS 10 ?
Since I am not a techie, I really do not know which upgrade will get me the thing I am looking for. In other words, I do not even know which upgrade will give me what kind of improvements. And also, if guys who have already tried these mods could tell me if my expectation from these mods are realistic or not, it will be very helpful.
To clarify further: I am not looking for more details, nor better soundstaging and imaging, nor anything related to transparency or dynamics. I am mainly looking for tonal purity, if other improvements piggy back with it I would not mind.
Please suggest. I really love the VRDS presentation and neutrality so I do not want to let it go.
Hello Pani,
I have a lot of Teac players: T1, VRDS10 and SE, P2, P10. An also a lot of European CD players with Philips components.
We started 18 months ago to work on the subject of CD players.
Now we have two modules to add in a cd player :
- the SPDIF module, better than everything we have measured for the moment
- the clock module for Philips (11MHz) or Sony (16MHz), better than what we have measured for the moment... Errr, not better, but in another league : when the error is in nano second with the other clocks, we are in the domain of femto seconds.
In addition, we have a very low cost digital cable (50€) with very high performance because of the BNC connectors.
Have a look on the SPDIF All Of Fame on our website :
TVC Module SPDIF Hall of Fame
We have installed the two modules in different Philips based players, and despite the CDMxx differences, we have always the same results: an exceptional cd player ! For the moment we have done the mods on two Philips low cost prototypes CD931 and 951, on a Wadia WT3200 and a Marantz CD94, and on a Marants CD80.
PhilipsCD951
In the japanese based players, we have done the mods on a VRDS10SE, VRDS T1, P10...
Every time the mods transform the CD player in something like a formula one. I use some Wadia DAC and also a wonderfull Audio Synthesis Dax Discret Variable. For the Wadias, I think the DAC are working in perfect conditions and I never heard them sound so detailed and sweet. For the DAX, so more informations in the background that I used to go back to listen again what I missed during years.
So for me it means you can have the drive you love and transform it in a giant killer. Amen.
I have a lot of Teac players: T1, VRDS10 and SE, P2, P10. An also a lot of European CD players with Philips components.
We started 18 months ago to work on the subject of CD players.
Now we have two modules to add in a cd player :
- the SPDIF module, better than everything we have measured for the moment
- the clock module for Philips (11MHz) or Sony (16MHz), better than what we have measured for the moment... Errr, not better, but in another league : when the error is in nano second with the other clocks, we are in the domain of femto seconds.
In addition, we have a very low cost digital cable (50€) with very high performance because of the BNC connectors.
Have a look on the SPDIF All Of Fame on our website :
TVC Module SPDIF Hall of Fame
We have installed the two modules in different Philips based players, and despite the CDMxx differences, we have always the same results: an exceptional cd player ! For the moment we have done the mods on two Philips low cost prototypes CD931 and 951, on a Wadia WT3200 and a Marantz CD94, and on a Marants CD80.
PhilipsCD951
In the japanese based players, we have done the mods on a VRDS10SE, VRDS T1, P10...
Every time the mods transform the CD player in something like a formula one. I use some Wadia DAC and also a wonderfull Audio Synthesis Dax Discret Variable. For the Wadias, I think the DAC are working in perfect conditions and I never heard them sound so detailed and sweet. For the DAX, so more informations in the background that I used to go back to listen again what I missed during years.
So for me it means you can have the drive you love and transform it in a giant killer. Amen.
Hi Ren,
Thanks a lot for what looks like an amazing upgrade.
I just have three queries:
1. What difference I would typically hear upon adding this spdif converter ? Measurements are great but I am not a techie so I will not be able to understand its sonic impact. Kindly suggest.
2. How easy will it be to install the spdif converter in my VRDS 10 player ? I cannot send the player to you from India so I have to to do it myself. I would like to know the complexity of doing this job. Also my player has only a RCA output, do I have to remove it to put this BNC connector ?
3. What would be the price ?
Please also disclose some details about the digital cable. Is it silver or copper ?
Thanks a lot for what looks like an amazing upgrade.
I just have three queries:
1. What difference I would typically hear upon adding this spdif converter ? Measurements are great but I am not a techie so I will not be able to understand its sonic impact. Kindly suggest.
2. How easy will it be to install the spdif converter in my VRDS 10 player ? I cannot send the player to you from India so I have to to do it myself. I would like to know the complexity of doing this job. Also my player has only a RCA output, do I have to remove it to put this BNC connector ?
3. What would be the price ?
Please also disclose some details about the digital cable. Is it silver or copper ?
Hi Pani,
1 - First at all consider this : adding the SPDIF module is not a big but a very subbtle difference in the sound. For the biiiig sonic difference, you have to install the clock module. If you want only one module for the best sonic performance, go for a clock one ! With a good clock you have a so big improvement that you can consider the question of the drive is closed (yes you can add spdif if you want to be perfect).
The SPDIF module is also cool because :
1/ You can use a low cost cable BNC BCN 75ohms with high performances instead of a high price RCA RCA low performance cable
2/ You can add an SPDIF output to unit without SPDIF output
3/ You can add XLR (yes, we have also an XLR SPDIF output) output to your drive, but it's not as good as BNC
The SPDIF converter is easy to install in the player... Well :
1/ you have to make an hole to fix the SPDIF Module, it's possible but not very easy if you have nothing to do that
2/ you have to use a soldering-iron to install the cables on the unit, we can propose some pictures to explain where to take the signal in the unit. If you do not know which side of the iron to take in hand, it's a bit difficult. But you can ask a friend anyway !
3/ You do not have to remove anything in the player : you still have the RCA output, and a new high performances SPDIF BNC Output.
Regards, Renaud
1 - First at all consider this : adding the SPDIF module is not a big but a very subbtle difference in the sound. For the biiiig sonic difference, you have to install the clock module. If you want only one module for the best sonic performance, go for a clock one ! With a good clock you have a so big improvement that you can consider the question of the drive is closed (yes you can add spdif if you want to be perfect).
The SPDIF module is also cool because :
1/ You can use a low cost cable BNC BCN 75ohms with high performances instead of a high price RCA RCA low performance cable
2/ You can add an SPDIF output to unit without SPDIF output
3/ You can add XLR (yes, we have also an XLR SPDIF output) output to your drive, but it's not as good as BNC
The SPDIF converter is easy to install in the player... Well :
1/ you have to make an hole to fix the SPDIF Module, it's possible but not very easy if you have nothing to do that
2/ you have to use a soldering-iron to install the cables on the unit, we can propose some pictures to explain where to take the signal in the unit. If you do not know which side of the iron to take in hand, it's a bit difficult. But you can ask a friend anyway !
3/ You do not have to remove anything in the player : you still have the RCA output, and a new high performances SPDIF BNC Output.
Regards, Renaud
Well, well, well.
I've sent you a PM asking your email adress to send you a pdf document with all the prices.
Let's have a look on the prices modules :
The high quality SPDIF output is 105€ with BNC. We have an XLR version for 150€.
For the clock module, we have different specifications :
Class A = <500fs
Class B = <1.5ps
Class C = <10ps
The class indicates the precision for the clock. Each module is measured individually and for class A we provide the report measurement.
What kind of sonic difference ? Well, let me tell you a story.
We meet Pascal Marie, the guy behind Nautile Audio, a High End French speakers conceptor. http://www.nautile-acoustique.com/
Pascal use the Audio Research CD5 for his demo and settings. We were there with the ooold Wadia WT3200 (basically something like the Marantz CD94) and with the all plastic CDM9 Philips CD951 (our ironic prototype).
Well, she short version is that : now we are doing some job for Pascal Marie, installing our clock modules in his gear and we are in the way of developping many products with him.
If I explain you the sonic differences, you will think I am a dreamer or a liar. We consider all the data is read from the player except if your CD is dirty / broken or your player faulty. With the very accurate clock and the best SPDIF output (and our cable) we have measured for now, you have a drive as good as (or a bit better ?) the Audio Research CD5... Even if you use a plastic Philips CD player! That's the funny part of the story : the results are reproducible and with the Philips gear from low cost Philips CD931 to Wadia WT3200 it sounds the same : gorgeous ! Far from consideration of 3D stage, bandwith etc... You will rediscover all your records and will hear so many details you will have to re-listen to believe it. But be careful, the mods are not ok for specific case like : winning the lottery or wife back home or anything in this flow.
For the cables we use components from Radiall: http://www.radiall.com/radiall/easysite/go/03r-00000a-000/home
Some pics :
The SPDIF Module (V1, the V2 has a better connector and slighly shorter signal path with marginal performances)
The Clock Module
I've sent you a PM asking your email adress to send you a pdf document with all the prices.
Let's have a look on the prices modules :
The high quality SPDIF output is 105€ with BNC. We have an XLR version for 150€.
For the clock module, we have different specifications :
Class A = <500fs
Class B = <1.5ps
Class C = <10ps
The class indicates the precision for the clock. Each module is measured individually and for class A we provide the report measurement.
What kind of sonic difference ? Well, let me tell you a story.
We meet Pascal Marie, the guy behind Nautile Audio, a High End French speakers conceptor. http://www.nautile-acoustique.com/
Pascal use the Audio Research CD5 for his demo and settings. We were there with the ooold Wadia WT3200 (basically something like the Marantz CD94) and with the all plastic CDM9 Philips CD951 (our ironic prototype).
Well, she short version is that : now we are doing some job for Pascal Marie, installing our clock modules in his gear and we are in the way of developping many products with him.
If I explain you the sonic differences, you will think I am a dreamer or a liar. We consider all the data is read from the player except if your CD is dirty / broken or your player faulty. With the very accurate clock and the best SPDIF output (and our cable) we have measured for now, you have a drive as good as (or a bit better ?) the Audio Research CD5... Even if you use a plastic Philips CD player! That's the funny part of the story : the results are reproducible and with the Philips gear from low cost Philips CD931 to Wadia WT3200 it sounds the same : gorgeous ! Far from consideration of 3D stage, bandwith etc... You will rediscover all your records and will hear so many details you will have to re-listen to believe it. But be careful, the mods are not ok for specific case like : winning the lottery or wife back home or anything in this flow.
For the cables we use components from Radiall: http://www.radiall.com/radiall/easysite/go/03r-00000a-000/home
Some pics :
The SPDIF Module (V1, the V2 has a better connector and slighly shorter signal path with marginal performances)
The Clock Module
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One of our fisrt attemp was for the Teac T1 :
The orignial SPDIF RCA Output :
The TVC SPDIF BNC Output :
Now compare :
T1 SPDIF orignal = Output voltage 0.5v / rise : 27.41ns - fall : 25ns
T1 SPDIF TVC Module = Output 2.2V (peak to peak) / rise 2.3ns - fall 2.7ns -> ten times faster than the orignal SPDIF connector, the DAC will thank you !
The "sonic" subjective impact -> 3 main points : details, details, details ! Each note is very detailed, no more feeling of pre and post echo. Everything seems easy to listening, each instrument can be heard without effort. A lot of energy and dynamic when required without subtracting any informations (details, 3D scene). Very impressive and a huge difference for this little player from Teac.
The unit :
The first SPDIF module we built (prototype) inside the drive :
Changing the head :
The orignial SPDIF RCA Output :
The TVC SPDIF BNC Output :
Now compare :
T1 SPDIF orignal = Output voltage 0.5v / rise : 27.41ns - fall : 25ns
T1 SPDIF TVC Module = Output 2.2V (peak to peak) / rise 2.3ns - fall 2.7ns -> ten times faster than the orignal SPDIF connector, the DAC will thank you !
The "sonic" subjective impact -> 3 main points : details, details, details ! Each note is very detailed, no more feeling of pre and post echo. Everything seems easy to listening, each instrument can be heard without effort. A lot of energy and dynamic when required without subtracting any informations (details, 3D scene). Very impressive and a huge difference for this little player from Teac.
The unit :
The first SPDIF module we built (prototype) inside the drive :
Changing the head :
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Hi,
I'm Jonathan, from France. Ok, I know Renaud's TVC for few years. I especially like his work and design in hearing music. In the vast and nebulous audio landscape, Internet offers many things... as bad as, sometimes, fabulous. So many speak about what they don't know! But I didn't like CD. Except at the time I had my last Audionote DAC & tube amp.
At home plays Rémi & Renaud's Philips CD931 they just lend me! Such a luck testing it with a Wadia X32 connected to my recent Marantz 170DC & 1060 préamp charging two Celestion Ditton 44. The result is absolutely clear. The Kenwood (that sounded not so bad) plays as if it was learning to read. (While it trys to read Books for childrens, to understand each word, the Philips can read Balzac, Proust, Kant, Jean Paul Sartre, Télé7jours... Nietzsche at breakfast).
Since I've sold my last Audionote dac & amp, I couldn't listen any CD. But only good vinyles! By reading the articles about their test, I understand what is important in digital mesurment and sounding. That's why I'm going to make opened my own Kenwood DP990SG for a complet "Class A" upgrade. This is not a proof but it is indeed what I am going to do! The proofs are written in TVC website... in the player & on our ears.
I know my Kenwood better than the Philips. It's Spdif output seems to be very poor. But the Philips leads no metaphysical question! So I'll tell you what is going to be continued...
I'm Jonathan, from France. Ok, I know Renaud's TVC for few years. I especially like his work and design in hearing music. In the vast and nebulous audio landscape, Internet offers many things... as bad as, sometimes, fabulous. So many speak about what they don't know! But I didn't like CD. Except at the time I had my last Audionote DAC & tube amp.
At home plays Rémi & Renaud's Philips CD931 they just lend me! Such a luck testing it with a Wadia X32 connected to my recent Marantz 170DC & 1060 préamp charging two Celestion Ditton 44. The result is absolutely clear. The Kenwood (that sounded not so bad) plays as if it was learning to read. (While it trys to read Books for childrens, to understand each word, the Philips can read Balzac, Proust, Kant, Jean Paul Sartre, Télé7jours... Nietzsche at breakfast).
Since I've sold my last Audionote dac & amp, I couldn't listen any CD. But only good vinyles! By reading the articles about their test, I understand what is important in digital mesurment and sounding. That's why I'm going to make opened my own Kenwood DP990SG for a complet "Class A" upgrade. This is not a proof but it is indeed what I am going to do! The proofs are written in TVC website... in the player & on our ears.
I know my Kenwood better than the Philips. It's Spdif output seems to be very poor. But the Philips leads no metaphysical question! So I'll tell you what is going to be continued...
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