I have a Sony CDP-102 that I bought years ago. I simply did not use my stereo very often. Sometimes once or twice a year with maybe playing one cd. Often times it took years to play it due to too much TV. Recently I tried to use it and the tray barely open and close, so I help it by pulling it or pushing it lightly when it closes. Its O.K. other than that problem and playing only tracks 1 and 2. It will not advance to other tracks no matter what I do. CAN ANYBODY HELP ME FIX IT? I was reading Bricolo's tread. Can I clean the lens from the outside or I have to open the unit?
Well I can't recall working on one of these, but it sounds an easy fix.
Yes you have to take the top off to clean the lens (and post some pics if you can).
Not playing all the tracks sounds like the sled is sticking... look and see if it's a rack and pinion system or a linear slide... obvious when you look.
The drawer... does it use a belt ? Again you are going to have to look. On anything this age dried out lubricant is the major problem, old grease solidifies too.
Edit... perhaps a moderator could move this to the Digital Source forum... and being a new member you won't trigger the thread notifier either 😉
Yes you have to take the top off to clean the lens (and post some pics if you can).
Not playing all the tracks sounds like the sled is sticking... look and see if it's a rack and pinion system or a linear slide... obvious when you look.
The drawer... does it use a belt ? Again you are going to have to look. On anything this age dried out lubricant is the major problem, old grease solidifies too.
Edit... perhaps a moderator could move this to the Digital Source forum... and being a new member you won't trigger the thread notifier either 😉
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Thanks for your insterest Mooly. I just open the top and the tray slides along two parallel rods on each side. I saw underneath a belt moving from one idler as it moves forward then a tug sound or jerk and the tray moves back as the belt move back too. So the tray just keep on moving back and forth. I did not do anything else because I was waiting for any help. I was about to remove the whole tray assembly after I saw the four screws holding it.
The problem is almost certainly old dried out grease etc.
Disc drawers normally have a couple of micro switches to detect when fully open and full closed. If the drawer doesn't make it to the ends to trip these, it can just keep going in and out. The logic times out after a few seconds and reverses the motor.
The belts can be ruled out if they are able to "stall" the motor. If you can hear/see the motor spinning but the pulleys not turning then the belt is suspect.
The proper way to relubricate is really to clean all the old stuff off, then use a suitable grease that's compatable with plastic/metal/nylon. Don't just use oil or automotive grease. Look at the slides, and look at any worm gears as these are favourite for getting gunged up.
It would help if you could come up with a service manual... I think the CDP 302 ? might have used the same mechanism.
Disc drawers normally have a couple of micro switches to detect when fully open and full closed. If the drawer doesn't make it to the ends to trip these, it can just keep going in and out. The logic times out after a few seconds and reverses the motor.
The belts can be ruled out if they are able to "stall" the motor. If you can hear/see the motor spinning but the pulleys not turning then the belt is suspect.
The proper way to relubricate is really to clean all the old stuff off, then use a suitable grease that's compatable with plastic/metal/nylon. Don't just use oil or automotive grease. Look at the slides, and look at any worm gears as these are favourite for getting gunged up.
It would help if you could come up with a service manual... I think the CDP 302 ? might have used the same mechanism.
Hello,
I have a CDP-103, but I guess trays are the same.
The "belt" will be probaly a thin steel cable with a spring to give elasticty.
It is wound two times around one gear, maybe spring and/or gear cause the stall.
Generally a good tray it was used in Accuphase players as well.
I have a CDP-103, but I guess trays are the same.
The "belt" will be probaly a thin steel cable with a spring to give elasticty.
It is wound two times around one gear, maybe spring and/or gear cause the stall.
Generally a good tray it was used in Accuphase players as well.
Rolfast2
Mooly you are right. Its just lubrication problem, because after I cleaned the rods where the tray slides, the tray goes out. Sometimes completely out and stops the motor. It does not go in completely though. Maybe after lubrication it will. Under a plastic worm gear from a horizontal motor which engages another plastic gear that lifts the cover of the disk before it goes out are two plastic gears with grease which probably need new grease. This is very hard to reach though. On the right side, viewed from behind is a vertical motor that drives a pulley on the left with a rubber belt. Another pulley below this is another pulley which drives another pulley on the left again with a rubber belt. This last pulley pulls the tray in, using stranded wire. I took pictures of the tray assembly which I will include in the next post. I took the whole assembly out.
Mooly you are right. Its just lubrication problem, because after I cleaned the rods where the tray slides, the tray goes out. Sometimes completely out and stops the motor. It does not go in completely though. Maybe after lubrication it will. Under a plastic worm gear from a horizontal motor which engages another plastic gear that lifts the cover of the disk before it goes out are two plastic gears with grease which probably need new grease. This is very hard to reach though. On the right side, viewed from behind is a vertical motor that drives a pulley on the left with a rubber belt. Another pulley below this is another pulley which drives another pulley on the left again with a rubber belt. This last pulley pulls the tray in, using stranded wire. I took pictures of the tray assembly which I will include in the next post. I took the whole assembly out.
Rolfast2
The laser also slides on two smaller rods. I don't see any dirt or any sign of lubrication but seems it sticks at the ends against the sides before it starts moving. Seems it is held by electomagnet at the ends. The tray tracks also shows no lubrication but just dirt, if ever maybe very very light.
The laser also slides on two smaller rods. I don't see any dirt or any sign of lubrication but seems it sticks at the ends against the sides before it starts moving. Seems it is held by electomagnet at the ends. The tray tracks also shows no lubrication but just dirt, if ever maybe very very light.
If you can just move the laser at will and feel the "magnetism" pulling on the sled then it sounds like it's a linear motor... a few early players went down that route. Worth cleaning the slides and relubricating. If they look like phosphour bronze bearings then a tiny drop of a fairly heavy oil (3 in 1 consistency but not grease) might be worth trying.
With regard to the tray you really need to look at all sliding surfaces and friction points and wash all the old gunge off... surprising how it all adds up (the friction)
With regard to the tray you really need to look at all sliding surfaces and friction points and wash all the old gunge off... surprising how it all adds up (the friction)
Picture 1 shows the top view of the tray that slides out to the right. Picture 2 shows the two gears before cleaning. I remove them then cleaned 4 gears then apply grease. I ALREADY FIX THE TRAY AND NOW IT SLIDES SMOOTHLY, THANKS. Picture 3 shows the back of the tray assembly. Picture 4 is the bottom of the assembly showing the sled that carries the laser. Tray slides out to the left. The sled moves freely once the assembly's ends are lifted. The unit still does not scan and still plays track 1 and 2 after just cleaning the track, no oil. Is it O.K. to apply heavy oil? Is it safe to clean the plates with isopropyl acohol? Its not really dirty. Sled moves to the center of the disk once loaded. Sorry, don't know how to add photo.
Too add a photo,
First click "go advanced" in the box below the "quick reply" message box. Doesn't matter if you decide half way through a message to do that, it carries it foward.
Then click "Manage attachements"
Click browse in the first box at the top and find your picture. Repeat for any more pictures.
Click upload... a message appears "uploading"
When complete, scroll down to the bottom of page and click "close this window"
The pictures should now be attached and when you post will appear. I don't think they show in message preview... they never used to anyway.
Make sure your pics aren't too big, a couple of 100k is plenty, and many object when they are massive and it alters the margins 🙂
It tells you in the attachments window what max sizes are allowed.
First click "go advanced" in the box below the "quick reply" message box. Doesn't matter if you decide half way through a message to do that, it carries it foward.
Then click "Manage attachements"
Click browse in the first box at the top and find your picture. Repeat for any more pictures.
Click upload... a message appears "uploading"
When complete, scroll down to the bottom of page and click "close this window"
The pictures should now be attached and when you post will appear. I don't think they show in message preview... they never used to anyway.
Make sure your pics aren't too big, a couple of 100k is plenty, and many object when they are massive and it alters the margins 🙂
It tells you in the attachments window what max sizes are allowed.
So it is a linear motor... which puts it in a pretty unique class.
The two tubular slides are the critical points... if you gently push the laser very slowly end to end it must feel free. The magnets will cause you to feel "friction" and the flexifoil will oppose you too, but the sled mustn't feel "mechanically" sticky. Make sure there is no dirt/fluff etc in the "gaps" around the coil and magnets that might interfere with the travel of the sled.
On the early players (not with the magnets of a linear motor) the pickup alone should slide freely end to end by just tilting the mech by 40 degrees or so. That's how free it should be... now yours won't do that because of the foil and magnets but you get the idea.
The sure way is to remove each slide and clean the bearings in the pickup carefully and then relubricate. Sony used to recommend a hypoid oil (like a gear oil) years and years ago. I'm guessing the bearings are phosphour bronze inserts so I would clean with iso, reassemble, then use a drop (and only one drop 🙂) of a fairly thick oil on the slides.
If you are sure the slide is free then the next step (should be the first step really) is to look at the quality of the signal (the rf or eye pattern) coming from the pickup. If that is poor, then the problem may not be mechanical at all.
Have you cleaned the lens properly ?
The two tubular slides are the critical points... if you gently push the laser very slowly end to end it must feel free. The magnets will cause you to feel "friction" and the flexifoil will oppose you too, but the sled mustn't feel "mechanically" sticky. Make sure there is no dirt/fluff etc in the "gaps" around the coil and magnets that might interfere with the travel of the sled.
On the early players (not with the magnets of a linear motor) the pickup alone should slide freely end to end by just tilting the mech by 40 degrees or so. That's how free it should be... now yours won't do that because of the foil and magnets but you get the idea.
The sure way is to remove each slide and clean the bearings in the pickup carefully and then relubricate. Sony used to recommend a hypoid oil (like a gear oil) years and years ago. I'm guessing the bearings are phosphour bronze inserts so I would clean with iso, reassemble, then use a drop (and only one drop 🙂) of a fairly thick oil on the slides.
If you are sure the slide is free then the next step (should be the first step really) is to look at the quality of the signal (the rf or eye pattern) coming from the pickup. If that is poor, then the problem may not be mechanical at all.
Have you cleaned the lens properly ?
This sled slides freely end to end at only 15 degrees. Will cleaning the lens help fix the problem when it plays tracks 1 and 2 clearly?
🙂 The sled sounds fine in that case.
From here on in, without actually looking at the signal coming from the pickup it's all guesswork... if the signal really is marginal, then asking it to play (and search) to later tracks may just tip things over the edge, the servos lose lock and it throughs a wobbly. The lens must be clean... that makes a big difference to the amplitude of the signal if it's really dusty. Use a soft cotton bud and something like camera lens fluid or even just water. The lens has to look clean and bright when viewed with a bright torch.
Rolfast2
Thank you Mooly for your help, but I guess you and I already spent a lot of time on this player. The problem might not be mechanical. I cleaned and oiled the track. I cleaned everything I could clean including the lens but I did not remove the slides. Trying to find the bearings too. Is the bearings the one that slides on the track? Its bronze. Does the quality of sound reflect good rf? Its not worth sending this to a technician.
Thank you Mooly for your help, but I guess you and I already spent a lot of time on this player. The problem might not be mechanical. I cleaned and oiled the track. I cleaned everything I could clean including the lens but I did not remove the slides. Trying to find the bearings too. Is the bearings the one that slides on the track? Its bronze. Does the quality of sound reflect good rf? Its not worth sending this to a technician.
Yes the bearings are the ones in the pickup that those tubular rods slide through.
Running out of options... it's sounding like there are other problems apar from just simple mechanical issues of sticking etc.
What happens if you just leave it to play a disc, how far (how long in minutes approx) will it play for. Don't search for tracks, just with it left playing ?
Does the disc appear to run true... no up/down wobble at the disc edge when it's spinning if viewed edge on. It should be perfect.
"Does the quality of sound reflect good rf"
Hmmm 🙂 Speaking as a technician the answer is "no", but that needs qualifying. As long as it falls within the limits of what the system can work with the audio is unchanged. It's only when the level drops or there is very significant noise etc on the signal that this then causes "drop outs" and the error correction begins "filling in" the missing info. At this point if the errors are fully correctable there is still no audible deterioration in the sound. It's only when the errors are not correctable that you start to hear the problems... and if the signal then becomes worse still, eventually even the servos that keep the lens on track will have problems and the player will then just do something unpredicatable... throw the disc out, stop, spin wildly etc.
Running out of options... it's sounding like there are other problems apar from just simple mechanical issues of sticking etc.
What happens if you just leave it to play a disc, how far (how long in minutes approx) will it play for. Don't search for tracks, just with it left playing ?
Does the disc appear to run true... no up/down wobble at the disc edge when it's spinning if viewed edge on. It should be perfect.
"Does the quality of sound reflect good rf"
Hmmm 🙂 Speaking as a technician the answer is "no", but that needs qualifying. As long as it falls within the limits of what the system can work with the audio is unchanged. It's only when the level drops or there is very significant noise etc on the signal that this then causes "drop outs" and the error correction begins "filling in" the missing info. At this point if the errors are fully correctable there is still no audible deterioration in the sound. It's only when the errors are not correctable that you start to hear the problems... and if the signal then becomes worse still, eventually even the servos that keep the lens on track will have problems and the player will then just do something unpredicatable... throw the disc out, stop, spin wildly etc.
Rolfast2
The player plays perfectly except this problem. Playing one track, it can go back or go ahead. It can also play from point A to point B on the same track. It will play the two tracks for 8 minutes contineously then go back to zero and stops the disk. It does not wobble, nothing unusual. When "Repeat All is On", it will repeat the two tracks. It will also repeat the track being played. When the unit is Off and then turned "On" it will show "2" and 8.13 while the disk makes 3 revolutions then stops then shows zero (0). The tubular tracks seem hard to remove. It looks like it will fall apart because the magnetic windings are running over steel plates
The player plays perfectly except this problem. Playing one track, it can go back or go ahead. It can also play from point A to point B on the same track. It will play the two tracks for 8 minutes contineously then go back to zero and stops the disk. It does not wobble, nothing unusual. When "Repeat All is On", it will repeat the two tracks. It will also repeat the track being played. When the unit is Off and then turned "On" it will show "2" and 8.13 while the disk makes 3 revolutions then stops then shows zero (0). The tubular tracks seem hard to remove. It looks like it will fall apart because the magnetic windings are running over steel plates
Just another thought, check that the flexible foil isn't stopping the pickup or causing friction when the mech is in place. It looks to have a bit of a bend in it... hard to tell in a picture, but if the pickup is free the problem is elsewhere.
Will the slides not wiggle out if you undo the clamps at each end... but again if it really is perfectly free there is no point.
I think now without an oscilloscope and looking at the signals you have gone as far as is reasonable.
The 2 and 8.13 thing sounds odd. Does it matter if a disc is in the tray for it to show that ? Do all discs give the same numbers ?
Will the slides not wiggle out if you undo the clamps at each end... but again if it really is perfectly free there is no point.
I think now without an oscilloscope and looking at the signals you have gone as far as is reasonable.
The 2 and 8.13 thing sounds odd. Does it matter if a disc is in the tray for it to show that ? Do all discs give the same numbers ?
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