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Old 11th February 2013, 10:20 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasticIsGood View Post
The evidence appears to point to a sluggish or jerky sled response when cold. The mechanical maximum lateral movement within the head is quite small...around 1mm at a guess...so the period between each jog of the sled motor might fit the rythm of your glitches.

This could be gear lash, dragging motor, or some kind of bearing lock, such that clearances become more favourable when warm. All would be peculiar to the construction of this type of carriage. The motor driver might also be suspect.

At a guess, the change of resistor allows the laser mech to tolerate misalignment better, but does not address the real problem. I still wonder if it was swapped by Sony at the last minute to rectify some other emergent fault.

Is there a way of adjusting the "balance" between sled and lateral motor? If you can alter the relationship between the two, the glitch rythm should change if this theory is true.
i don't completely agree...the mechanism of a cd player doesn't reach a temperature,when working, such as to produce or modify any clearance in the mechanism itself and/or in any bearings (i think this can only happen with wear)...it is not like any other mechanism like a clutch, an engine or something else.
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Old 11th February 2013, 10:48 PM   #62
Salar is offline Salar  Germany
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It is about 28 degrees centigrade in Singapore almost the whole year ... I bet my player will never skip there.
But dacen, did I understand you orrectly:
The player skipped before (o.K it was also greased) but with external clock, it does not?
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Old 11th February 2013, 11:23 PM   #63
dacen is offline dacen  Norway
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Yes you are correct. During ordinary playing there is no skipping with external clock. It was my intension to bring this odd design to your attention. If this synchronisation is slipping for whatever reason you will experience this as small clicking in the sound reproduced. This is done to get around the problem of frequencies not easily divided to match the purpose. Divide 45,1584 Mhz by three and you end up with 15,0528 Mhz
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Old 12th February 2013, 12:34 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salar View Post
@ il capo
@ Plasticisgood

I completely disagree. A new laser never helped - I mentioned my Toshiba XR-Z70. It now runs for 28 years with the same laser.

And as il capo wrote, the X5000 needs simply to warm up without playing a disc to start tracking correctly.
So mechanical parts (Like a motor or a coil) can be still cold, but a transistor driving the coils/motor might have heated enough to work correctly.
So I guess something in the circuitry is prone to cold, not the mechanics.

15 degrees change in temperature - this is nothing for plastic or steel rods or grease.

Again, it also needs a poor RF-signal from a CD to make the problems evident.
They do not seem to occur when a CD is of good manufacturing quality.

Normally I would not care, because the player seems to play fine after half an hour BUT we can not be sure, that error interpolation simply masks tracking errors after the player has heated up!!!!
Maybe we should study schematics from other Sony players that use the fixed pickup for comparison. Players are:

SONY CDP-X3000 CXD2562Q + 2 x CXA8042AS Fixed Pick-Up KSS-213B
SONY CDP-XA30ES CXD2562Q + 2 x CXA8042AS Fixed Pick-Up KSS-213B
SONY CDP-XB930 CXD8735N - CXA8055M - CXA2568 Fixed Pick-Up KSS-213BA
SONY CDP-XA5ES CXD2562Q + 2 x CXA8042S Fixed Pick-Up KSS-273A
SONY CDP-XA7ES CXD2562Q + 2 x CXA8042AS Fixed Pick-Up KSS-273A
SONY CDP-XA50ES CXD2562Q + 2 x CXA8042AS Fixed Pick-Up KSS-273A / B
SONY CDP-XA55ES CXD8594Q + CXA8042S - CXD8762Q Fixed Pick-Up KSS-273B
SONY CDP-XA555ES CXD8762Q - CXD9521Q - CXA8042AS Fixed Pick-Up KSS-273B
SONY CDP-X5000 CXD2562Q + 2 x CXA8042AS Fixed Pick-Up KSS-274A
SONY CDP-XE700 CXD8567AM Fixed Pick-Up KSS-213B
SONY CDP-XE800 CXD8505BQ Fixed Pick-Up KSS-213B
SONY CDP-XE900 CXD8505 + CXA8055 Fixed Pick-Up KSS-213B

Players like the XA5ES could be very close in circuitry design...

eehhmmm i forgot....i also own an CDP-XB930 (same transport, and pickup of CDP-X3000) that has skipping problems just like my X5000...the only difference is that the XB930 makes A LOT of these errors for each tracks of the playing cd and usually takes a long time to disappear (+30mins).
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Old 12th February 2013, 01:45 AM   #65
dacen is offline dacen  Norway
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Seems like they do it almost the same way here. Only here it is done the analog way without a resonator. See page 15 at the bottom. Three inverters.

http://download.qrz.ru/pub/hamradio/...CDP-XB930E.pdf
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Old 12th February 2013, 05:00 AM   #66
Salar is offline Salar  Germany
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CDs have a track pitch of 1.6 m. So I guess 16 turns roughly means 25m.

I own a Test CD with artificial defects.
"CD-Check" by "Digital Recordings" Number DR2002
Black arrows ranging from 0,375mm from the center of the CD to 1.5mm on the outside. It is four of them, laid out like a cross.
The X5000 will play up to 4x 1,125mm defects fine. I assume the manufacturing quality of the CD is very good, because despite the arrows it shows a very clean, sharp eyepattern. CDs with bad eyepattern (but still within the range of being played back normally) show the "cold=skip" effect.

I also use the X5000 as transport only - the classical way - with a Buffalo II hooked to it.
Or better said , a Nakamichi OMS-5II modified with a BuffaloII. Part of the mod was to provide the Nak with SPDIF inputs.

But I have the skipping also while listening with the X5000s internal DAC.

But now what could be the solution? Feeding the X5000s CXD2515AQ decoder directly with a 16.9344mHz clock?
But X601 does provide this frequency? (Maybe Sony was sloppy stating 16mHz instead of 16.9344.)

PLL Free Run Frequency check demands 4.3218 mhz. Same like in other Sony players, like the XB930 or a CDP-502 from 1985

Can I monitor reading errors? Many older decoders had an output pin for counting them, but the CXD2515 does not have one, correct?

Last edited by Salar; 12th February 2013 at 05:11 AM.
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Old 14th February 2013, 09:54 AM   #67
Salar is offline Salar  Germany
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Sorry, please ignore my reply #56 in this thread completely.
Skipping is not dependent on the discs manufacturing quality. The X5000 in in a room of 13 degrees celsius right now.
Switching on the X5000 after 2 days of rest, both discs mentioned in #56 play equally bad.
Tested this with external DAC via AES/EBU and with internal DAC. Skipping starts to disappear after 25 minutes...
All the best,
Salar
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Old 14th February 2013, 01:24 PM   #68
Salar is offline Salar  Germany
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Datsheet of the CDP-X5000 ICs for driving the spindle and sled motor - BA6297AFP.
Even though the datasheet shows that one IC can drive sled and spindle motor, Sony used two of them.
Also Sonys implementation is different from what the manufacturer shows in the application example.
Maybe this is worth to check for design errors?
Attached Files
File Type: pdf BA6297AFP_Sony_CDP-X5000_IC.pdf (109.0 KB, 12 views)

Last edited by Salar; 14th February 2013 at 01:27 PM.
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Old 14th February 2013, 04:12 PM   #69
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If the problem is that a chip or associated components only work when warm, perhaps you could try freezer spray on them when the machine is working? That should then provoke the problem, yes?

25 min is a very long time for a chip to warm up.

I almost wish my XB930 were similarly afflicted, so I could be of more help, but it works perfectly whatever the temperature, down to around 1 or 2 degrees at least. It does suffer from the occasional rotation-speed clacking that all Sonys seem to share...from a fluttering focus mech I believe.
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Old 14th February 2013, 04:31 PM   #70
Salar is offline Salar  Germany
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Hello PlasticIsGood,
thank you for the tip, but the servo board is hidden beneath the base unit - I simply cant access it with freezer spray.
Maybe it is a transistor...
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