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Old 5th February 2013, 05:20 PM   #31
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Does "10 to 30 minutes" mean sometimes 10 sometimes 30 and sometimes in between, or does it mean always some more exact time you haven't measured but guess it's somewhere between 10 and 30?

Does it play OK after that time following power-up, or does it require that time of actually playing before it's OK?

Last time I had a vaguely similar problem it turned out to be the decoder chip. When I removed it for replacement, one of it's pins fell off where it had cracked at the shoulder. Why it required play time, rather than power-up time, I don't know. Maybe it gets hotter when it's processing data.

Oddly, it could be got going almost immediately if I used the fast-forward for a few seconds, or skipped through tracks. Once it had played a track or two it was normal. If I stopped playing and left it switched on, then after a few minutes it needed jogging again.

Completely different chip, but to my mind a decoder fault is more plausible than a mechanical one related to the sled.

The idea that the play problem is related to the keyboard fault seems a long shot. Conceivably, an intermittent faulty fast-forward or backward key could lead to jumps, but I can't see how that could be cleared by playing rather than just power-on time. Between the keyboard and decoder there's a front panel controller and the system controller, presumably.

But it could be cleared by you using the keyboard for skipping tracks and then returning to the beginning...
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Old 5th February 2013, 05:54 PM   #32
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its pins, not it's, too late to edit, I hate that...
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Old 5th February 2013, 07:31 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasticIsGood View Post
Does "10 to 30 minutes" mean sometimes 10 sometimes 30 and sometimes in between, or does it mean always some more exact time you haven't measured but guess it's somewhere between 10 and 30?

Does it play OK after that time following power-up, or does it require that time of actually playing before it's OK?

Last time I had a vaguely similar problem it turned out to be the decoder chip. When I removed it for replacement, one of it's pins fell off where it had cracked at the shoulder. Why it required play time, rather than power-up time, I don't know. Maybe it gets hotter when it's processing data.

Oddly, it could be got going almost immediately if I used the fast-forward for a few seconds, or skipped through tracks. Once it had played a track or two it was normal. If I stopped playing and left it switched on, then after a few minutes it needed jogging again.

Completely different chip, but to my mind a decoder fault is more plausible than a mechanical one related to the sled.

The idea that the play problem is related to the keyboard fault seems a long shot. Conceivably, an intermittent faulty fast-forward or backward key could lead to jumps, but I can't see how that could be cleared by playing rather than just power-on time. Between the keyboard and decoder there's a front panel controller and the system controller, presumably.

But it could be cleared by you using the keyboard for skipping tracks and then returning to the beginning...
never measured...i guess it's between 10 and 30.I don't know if it plays ok after warm up without playing,because i always turn it on and put a disc to play...Anyway reading errors occur only for the first track of the disc.My idea is that at the begginnig of the disc the sled must move faster and smoother than at the end of the disc...but it's only my idea...
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Old 5th February 2013, 09:27 PM   #34
Salar is offline Salar  Germany
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Well, at least temperature influences the skipping problem. Never have it in the summer (my apartment is under the roof and gets hot anyway), but in winter.
The Sony needs to get warm and the jumping disappears.
This takes about 15 - 20 minutes. And maybe, 15 to 20 degrees plus make the difference.

About the keyboard circuitry: As far as i understand, the closed lid puts the connected circuitry/IC pins more or less to GND, thus signaling an inserted cd and starting the player for seeking TOC.
But if this signal line is noisy, this could probably lead to dropouts? But of course, how can something be noisy when the circuitry is cold and become clean, when it is warm.
But again, I am not a technician and i might be wrong here
But also strange to me: According to the service manual, all unconnected pins of the Sony ICīs are not grounded, correct?
But I thought master rule is to connect unconnected pins to ground, to prevent noise messing the ICīs work? I.e this is what i learned
when I built my simple diy circuitries.
So is this ajor flaw in the Sonyīs design or nothing to worry about?

I also thought about a faulty solder joint at one ICīs pins, but how can three owners of the CDP-X5000 have the same faulty solder joint, which also shows the same behaviour?
This fixed pickup mechnism has more mass to move. But when you turn the gears, youīll notice, the force needed is not much. So the viscosity of grease should not make much difference.
Becaus of this consistencies I am picking on a possible flaw in the Sonyīs circuitry design...
All the best,
Salar

Last edited by Salar; 5th February 2013 at 09:43 PM.
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Old 6th February 2013, 02:16 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by il capo View Post
...My idea is that at the begginnig of the disc the sled must move faster and smoother than at the end of the disc...but it's only my idea...
Not true of the sled AFAIK: the close lateral tracking is done in the head using a linear motor, whereas the sled jogs occasionally. I think Sony heads are inclined to flutter but I haven't determined exactly how or why. The ones with a fixed head have an additional problem which might fit your symptoms.

Every time the sled jogs, the spindle moves the disc, but it's only holding it by the sprung or weighted contact with the boss. Consequently, any slight tilting and/or lateral misalignment of the disc allowed by seating clearances can change.

Altogether, if the problem is mechanical "stiction", it could be in the head or sled. The clamping mechanism could also be the culprit, but I can't see how this could be directly related to temperature.
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Old 6th February 2013, 03:53 AM   #36
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Oh, and thinking on from a point made by Salar, high gearing demanded by the inertia of the massive sled would mean the motor spins unusually fast. A dragging motor may not be able to keep up. I'm trying to think of why several similar machines should develop the same fault.
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Old 6th February 2013, 04:13 AM   #37
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This type of problem can occur due to worn out bearing of the spin motor.

Gajanan Phadte
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Old 6th February 2013, 04:17 AM   #38
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...and by the way, see how the beautiful composite plastic spring on the dirt-cheap Toshiba swing-arm head in my avatar serves for both vertical and fine radial movement. Brass pins too. Genius, art, plastic.
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Old 6th February 2013, 06:54 AM   #39
Salar is offline Salar  Germany
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Dears PlasticIsGood
so you think the brass puck gives too much play?. Donīt think so,
I canīt move it a bit horizontally or tilt itīs angle with a CD beneath it.
I even had a lighter aluminium puck milled, with almost half of the weight, no difference.

Dear gmphadhe,
If the bearings were worn out, the problem would persist all the time playing a disc. I doesnīt . And disappears after warming up.
This would also mean I bought my CDP-X5000 brand new in 1997 with already worn out bearings.
All the best,
Salar
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Old 7th February 2013, 03:49 AM   #40
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The head has a long arc to correct its tracking on the outsides.

Gajanan Phadte
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