DAC Rate...

Big_Bill · 5th September 2009, 04:52 AM

My sony CD players DAC is rated at 16 bit/192HZ. Is this considered a poor rate? If so what is considered a good rate?

Thanks from a digital newbee!

Big_Bill · 5th September 2009, 04:11 PM

Is there another forum I should post my question on?

EBM_dude · 5th September 2009, 04:48 PM

I think you meant 192 kHz rather than Hz....

Big_Bill · 6th September 2009, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EBM_dude

I think you meant 192 kHz rather than Hz....

Ok, I did! The question remains

Mooly · 6th September 2009, 07:37 AM

There is no answer !
There can be good and bad implementations of all technologies. "Normal" CD's are made using 44.1khz sampling and 16 bit technology which gives 65536 (2 to the power 16) "discrete" voltage steps between zero and whatever the output of the CD player is.
That is fixed, absolute and unalterable, and although DACs now have far higher performance 24bit, and higher sampling rates you can't create more data from something that wasn't there in the first place.
A higher sampling frequency, and oversampling technologies make it easier to design an "audibly less intrusive" filter that has be incorporated into the DAC to remove high frequency noise produced by the conversion process. This is where all original 44.1khz DAC's suffered. To design a filter with a flat response to 20khz which then had to roll off at a dramatic rate to be perhaps 90db down at 22.05khz (half the sample rate) can't be done transparently. At higher rates it's much easier.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyquist...mpling_theorem
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sample_rate_conversion

Having said all that a good implementation of say a 44.1 khz DAC sympathetically designed can be beat hands down a poor thrown together 24 bit 192khz DAC, and a good implemetation of the later will probably always beat the 44.1khz DAC.

Big_Bill · 6th September 2009, 06:14 PM

Thank you very much! I am begining to get the picture.

Mooly · 6th September 2009, 06:31 PM

Your welcome.
It's a vast subject and as much an art as a science to blend theory with what actually sounds good in practice.

Big_Bill · 6th September 2009, 06:51 PM

What are some of the better CD players on the used market a po boy like me should look into?

tritosine · 6th September 2009, 07:20 PM

people used to buy those with pcm63 and ad1861-5 inside
http://www.freeweb.hu/mestertuning/dac.php

the ones with pcm1702 are relatively new .

Big_Bill · 10th September 2009, 07:09 AM

Thanks guys!

5th September 2009, 04:52 AM	#1
Big_Bill diyAudio Member Join Date: May 2009	DAC Rate... My sony CD players DAC is rated at 16 bit/192HZ. Is this considered a poor rate? If so what is considered a good rate? Thanks from a digital newbee!

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5th September 2009, 04:11 PM	#2
Big_Bill diyAudio Member Join Date: May 2009	Is there another forum I should post my question on?

5th September 2009, 04:48 PM	#3
EBM_dude diyAudio Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Germany	I think you meant 192 kHz rather than Hz....

6th September 2009, 07:37 AM	#5
Mooly diyAudio Member Join Date: Sep 2007	There is no answer ! There can be good and bad implementations of all technologies. "Normal" CD's are made using 44.1khz sampling and 16 bit technology which gives 65536 (2 to the power 16) "discrete" voltage steps between zero and whatever the output of the CD player is. That is fixed, absolute and unalterable, and although DACs now have far higher performance 24bit, and higher sampling rates you can't create more data from something that wasn't there in the first place. A higher sampling frequency, and oversampling technologies make it easier to design an "audibly less intrusive" filter that has be incorporated into the DAC to remove high frequency noise produced by the conversion process. This is where all original 44.1khz DAC's suffered. To design a filter with a flat response to 20khz which then had to roll off at a dramatic rate to be perhaps 90db down at 22.05khz (half the sample rate) can't be done transparently. At higher rates it's much easier. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyquist...mpling_theorem http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sample_rate_conversion Having said all that a good implementation of say a 44.1 khz DAC sympathetically designed can be beat hands down a poor thrown together 24 bit 192khz DAC, and a good implemetation of the later will probably always beat the 44.1khz DAC.

6th September 2009, 06:14 PM	#6
Big_Bill diyAudio Member Join Date: May 2009	Thank you very much! I am begining to get the picture.

6th September 2009, 06:31 PM	#7
Mooly diyAudio Member Join Date: Sep 2007	Your welcome. It's a vast subject and as much an art as a science to blend theory with what actually sounds good in practice.

6th September 2009, 06:51 PM	#8
Big_Bill diyAudio Member Join Date: May 2009	What are some of the better CD players on the used market a po boy like me should look into?

6th September 2009, 07:20 PM	#9
tritosine diyAudio Member Join Date: Aug 2008	people used to buy those with pcm63 and ad1861-5 inside http://www.freeweb.hu/mestertuning/dac.php the ones with pcm1702 are relatively new .

10th September 2009, 07:09 AM	#10
Big_Bill diyAudio Member Join Date: May 2009	Thanks guys!

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