Hi guys!
The Nonoz II DAC page is finished. This is my newest non-oversampling project. It's quite affordable and easy to build...
So have a look at:
http://home.student.utwente.nl/f.s.bouwman/audio/nonoz2.html
Have fun!
Fedde
The Nonoz II DAC page is finished. This is my newest non-oversampling project. It's quite affordable and easy to build...
So have a look at:
http://home.student.utwente.nl/f.s.bouwman/audio/nonoz2.html
Have fun!
Fedde
Fedde,
Some questions on the T4-6T Transformer.
1. Could you post a schematic on how it was applied in your application. I looked at Marc's page but your DAC's at the digital input seem a little different.
2. Whats the purpose of the transformer. Along with cleaning the signal, does it strengthen the signal it at all.
3. Can it be purchased in small quantities 1-2. The quote on the mini-circuits page is for 10-49.
Thanks...Lee
Some questions on the T4-6T Transformer.
1. Could you post a schematic on how it was applied in your application. I looked at Marc's page but your DAC's at the digital input seem a little different.
2. Whats the purpose of the transformer. Along with cleaning the signal, does it strengthen the signal it at all.
3. Can it be purchased in small quantities 1-2. The quote on the mini-circuits page is for 10-49.
Thanks...Lee
The answer on question 2 can be found here:
http://members.brabant.chello.nl/~m.heijligers/DAChtml/inprec.htm
The schematic on Fedde page is without transformer. Probably Fedde forgot to draw it because the PCB with the transformer is my design
. I included the transformer for several reasons as found on this forum and on Marc Heijligers page. Just do a search on digital transformer and you'll find all details and reasons for using them.
The DAC really performs better with a good transformer. Problem is to find a good one. This step-up one can be obtained from Guido Tent ( the man from the XO clocks, he is a member of this forum too ).
I also made some DAC's with Lundahl LL1566 which is not as bad as many say on this forum. Well, it is better than no transformer at all
http://members.brabant.chello.nl/~m.heijligers/DAChtml/inprec.htm
The schematic on Fedde page is without transformer. Probably Fedde forgot to draw it because the PCB with the transformer is my design
. I included the transformer for several reasons as found on this forum and on Marc Heijligers page. Just do a search on digital transformer and you'll find all details and reasons for using them.The DAC really performs better with a good transformer. Problem is to find a good one. This step-up one can be obtained from Guido Tent ( the man from the XO clocks, he is a member of this forum too ).
I also made some DAC's with Lundahl LL1566 which is not as bad as many say on this forum. Well, it is better than no transformer at all
Transformer
If I remember correctly Fred told us the transformer should be in the transport and the 74HCU04/ 74HC86 at the DAC end of the transmission line preventing the CS8412 spitting back into the cable. Of course my interface with AD8561 would also work.
Hi jean-Paul,jean-paul said:The answer on question 2 can be found here:
http://members.brabant.chello.nl/~m.heijligers/DAChtml/inprec.htm
The schematic on Fedde page is without transformer. Probably Fedde forgot to draw it because the PCB with the transformer is my design
The DAC really performs better with a good transformer. Problem is to find a good one. This one can be obtained from Guido Tent ( the man from the XO clocks, he is a member of this forum too ).
I also made some DAC's with Lundahl LL1566 which is not as bad as many say on this forum. Well, it is better than no transformer at all
If I remember correctly Fred told us the transformer should be in the transport and the 74HCU04/ 74HC86 at the DAC end of the transmission line preventing the CS8412 spitting back into the cable. Of course my interface with AD8561 would also work.
I am using Scott dixons DAC. Could I just lift the connections to RXP and RXN and insert the transformer or does it require additional modifications? my digital input looks the same as feddes below...Lee
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
or maybe something along the lines of this setup.
http://beggingdogrecords.tripod.com/DAC.html
http://beggingdogrecords.tripod.com/DAC.html
Re: Transformer
Mmm, I don't know what should be done by whom but sometimes it can be refreshing to build something and find out yourself. Which I did with some types of transformers and I found out this typical transformer is implemented very well in the Heijligers DAC. Maybe your interface works good too but it is more complex and from what I read things can go wrong too. I like this simple interface because it is simple AND better than coupling like the datasheet says. No more, no less. I want to add that I prefer transformers at both sides of the line.
Lee, the transformer described can not be used in the way your link shows. Just look at the Heijligers DAC's schematic for optimal results. I used the Lundahl LL1566 ( which is a 1:1 transformer unlike the Minicircuits type ) directly on the RXP and RXN pins with a 75 Ohm resistor at the secondary windings. I only can advise you to try out yourself. Never forget to use a cap in the primary of the used transformer and keep wiring short.
Elso Kwak said:
Hi jean-Paul,
If I remember correctly Fred told us the transformer should be in the transport and the 74HCU04/ 74HC86 at the DAC end of the transmission line preventing the CS8412 spitting back into the cable. Of course my interface with AD8561 would also work.
Mmm, I don't know what should be done by whom but sometimes it can be refreshing to build something and find out yourself. Which I did with some types of transformers and I found out this typical transformer is implemented very well in the Heijligers DAC. Maybe your interface works good too but it is more complex and from what I read things can go wrong too. I like this simple interface because it is simple AND better than coupling like the datasheet says. No more, no less. I want to add that I prefer transformers at both sides of the line.
Lee, the transformer described can not be used in the way your link shows. Just look at the Heijligers DAC's schematic for optimal results. I used the Lundahl LL1566 ( which is a 1:1 transformer unlike the Minicircuits type ) directly on the RXP and RXN pins with a 75 Ohm resistor at the secondary windings. I only can advise you to try out yourself. Never forget to use a cap in the primary of the used transformer and keep wiring short.
Hello Fedde,
Looks fine.
One notice though.
I checked that 3.3nF value of shunt caps at the output and found their value too tall if used with 1.5k resistors. They roll-off already at 20kHz some 1.5dB (30degs phase shift). Add natural non-os’s 3.5dB roll-off and you’re at 5dB. Take note on this if it is not what you intended. I still can hear 1dB roll-off at 20kHz and I think you’re younger than I
Pedja
Looks fine.
One notice though.
I checked that 3.3nF value of shunt caps at the output and found their value too tall if used with 1.5k resistors. They roll-off already at 20kHz some 1.5dB (30degs phase shift). Add natural non-os’s 3.5dB roll-off and you’re at 5dB. Take note on this if it is not what you intended. I still can hear 1dB roll-off at 20kHz and I think you’re younger than I
Pedja
You were too fast for me Pedja as I noticed the same
3.3 nF is OK with the 1 k resistors in a 5V supply setup. Despite all positive comments about 6V and even 8V supplies I quit experiments with this some time ago as results were disappointing with 8V ( and 1k69 for I/V ) with my TDA's. It distorted clearly with bass signals. Scott pointed out to me that not all TDA1543 can handle 8V. He handpicks the ones he uses in his DAC's. Respect for doing so !
Since then I only used 5V, 3 x 1 k and no caps in the first DAC and 3.3 nF in the current ones. Only this evening I soldered a 6V regulator in to check again if it is better or not. I recalculated the resistors for I/V and Vref to make things according the datasheet as pointed out by Rbroer in this thread:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12841
Since my stock of Styroflex is running out I used leftover 2.2 nF caps for filtering. Did not have the opportunity to listen to it unfortunately as other things had to be done.
3.3 nF is OK with the 1 k resistors in a 5V supply setup. Despite all positive comments about 6V and even 8V supplies I quit experiments with this some time ago as results were disappointing with 8V ( and 1k69 for I/V ) with my TDA's. It distorted clearly with bass signals. Scott pointed out to me that not all TDA1543 can handle 8V. He handpicks the ones he uses in his DAC's. Respect for doing so !
Since then I only used 5V, 3 x 1 k and no caps in the first DAC and 3.3 nF in the current ones. Only this evening I soldered a 6V regulator in to check again if it is better or not. I recalculated the resistors for I/V and Vref to make things according the datasheet as pointed out by Rbroer in this thread:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12841
Since my stock of Styroflex is running out I used leftover 2.2 nF caps for filtering. Did not have the opportunity to listen to it unfortunately as other things had to be done.
Jean-Paul,
Do you mean something like this...Thanks Lee
Do you mean something like this...Thanks Lee
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
The risk of turning on my pc when I want to go to sleep
Yes but without the caps ( just connect the secondaries to RXP and RXN ) and the 75 Ohm resistor at the secondary windings.
You can connect a resistor 10 k from SPDIF ground to the ground of your DAC. That's how I used the LL1566 and it was better than another example of the same DAC without transformer. As said before the Minicircuits transformer can not be used like this.
BTW when you're not sure if a transformer is used in the cdplayer please put a coupling cap in series with the primaries to avoid DC on the transformer. They hate DC.
Like the Lundahl datasheet tells us:
http://www.lundahl.se/pdfs/datash/1566.pdf
Yes but without the caps ( just connect the secondaries to RXP and RXN ) and the 75 Ohm resistor at the secondary windings.
You can connect a resistor 10 k from SPDIF ground to the ground of your DAC. That's how I used the LL1566 and it was better than another example of the same DAC without transformer. As said before the Minicircuits transformer can not be used like this.
BTW when you're not sure if a transformer is used in the cdplayer please put a coupling cap in series with the primaries to avoid DC on the transformer. They hate DC.
Like the Lundahl datasheet tells us:
http://www.lundahl.se/pdfs/datash/1566.pdf
rfbrw said:
Could it be that they are just fine sounding devices ? Or maybe the I2S input that connects easily with the Crystal device without glue logic ? Or the current output ? Or the low price of the TDA1543 ? Or the high output voltage without output stage with TDA1543 ? Or the low risk of building one ( proven technology ) ? Or maybe a combination of those factors ?
I noticed the same lack of adventure with beer brewers, they always seem to use water for making beer.
NON TDA DAC's on the Net
Hi ray,
Audionote uses the AD1865N-J in there NON-OS DAC1.1 & 1.2 kit.
I have experimented with PCM 56, AD1851, AD1864N-J, AD1865N and N-K and TDA1541AS1 & TDA1543 all in the NON-OS mode. All these DAC-chips can be connected with very simple glue logic to the CS8412, except the TDA chips that need no glue logic as separation into the two stereo channels is done in the DAC.
Just invert the LATCH for one channel in case of the PCM and AD chips. But you have to observe the "mode setting". I posted most of my experiences on the Audio Asylum.
In the end I stayed with the TDA1543. But Jocko might change my opinion.....
rfbrw said:
Hi ray,
Audionote uses the AD1865N-J in there NON-OS DAC1.1 & 1.2 kit.
I have experimented with PCM 56, AD1851, AD1864N-J, AD1865N and N-K and TDA1541AS1 & TDA1543 all in the NON-OS mode. All these DAC-chips can be connected with very simple glue logic to the CS8412, except the TDA chips that need no glue logic as separation into the two stereo channels is done in the DAC.
Just invert the LATCH for one channel in case of the PCM and AD chips. But you have to observe the "mode setting". I posted most of my experiences on the Audio Asylum.
In the end I stayed with the TDA1543. But Jocko might change my opinion.....
jean-paul,
Not being beer drinking sort I couln't possibly comment but I would have thought hops would make for a more apt analogy, but I digress.
On a more relevant note "because it is easy" is pretty poor excuse.
Elso Kwak,
The technical aspects are not the problem. The end result is. I built a couple (pcm63 & pcm1702) listened to them and decided I'd be better served by other means. Its just that it would be interesting to compare notes other non-TDA154X with designs.
ray.
Not being beer drinking sort I couln't possibly comment but I would have thought hops would make for a more apt analogy, but I digress.
On a more relevant note "because it is easy" is pretty poor excuse.
Elso Kwak,
The technical aspects are not the problem. The end result is. I built a couple (pcm63 & pcm1702) listened to them and decided I'd be better served by other means. Its just that it would be interesting to compare notes other non-TDA154X with designs.
ray.
Why I am doing this....
Hi ray,
I tried all these DAC-chips and NON-OS because I was not satisfied with the sound of the CD.
I forgot the TDA1545A, tried also that one.
The end result is the only thing that counts for me: [size=huge]GOOD SOUND.[/size] Thanks to the help of friendly forummembers here and on the Audio Asylum I believe I have come a lot closer to that goal.....
rfbrw said:
Hi ray,
I tried all these DAC-chips and NON-OS because I was not satisfied with the sound of the CD.
I forgot the TDA1545A, tried also that one.
The end result is the only thing that counts for me: [size=huge]GOOD SOUND.[/size] Thanks to the help of friendly forummembers here and on the Audio Asylum I believe I have come a lot closer to that goal.....
TDA1543 vs. TDA1541AS1
Hi Peter,
First of all there is no absolute truth in audio.
I have written earlier on these pages that the TDA1541AS1 was too polite for me, or too English sounding. And I had to explain what I meant with that and I did explain.
It has also to do with the kind of music you like and your system. If I only listened to chamber music I might have stayed with the TDA151AS1. But I like all kinds of music including pop.
Thorsten (Kuei Yang Wang) and Lesha will of course prefer the TDA1541AS1. If you ask Fedde or Jean-Paul, they seem to prefer the TDA1543.
And if you ask Jocko he will laugh about NON-OS and recommend a good digital filter and a 24 bit DAC.
Good luck with the building of your TDA1543 DAC!
Peter Daniel said:
Hi Peter,
First of all there is no absolute truth in audio.
I have written earlier on these pages that the TDA1541AS1 was too polite for me, or too English sounding. And I had to explain what I meant with that and I did explain.
It has also to do with the kind of music you like and your system. If I only listened to chamber music I might have stayed with the TDA151AS1. But I like all kinds of music including pop.
Thorsten (Kuei Yang Wang) and Lesha will of course prefer the TDA1541AS1. If you ask Fedde or Jean-Paul, they seem to prefer the TDA1543.
And if you ask Jocko he will laugh about NON-OS and recommend a good digital filter and a 24 bit DAC.
Good luck with the building of your TDA1543 DAC!
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