szoze said:
Brand new member 1 day old, coming on a bit strong for a new born, watch out the moderators don't take kindly to flaming?
No, I believe it is you who were impressed with the forward thin nature of the HD990 you think there more detail but it's not, live with it and you will soon tire of it.
Tolu said:
I wasn't at this meeting Tolu, but from three member that were who rang me reported the HD990 was shamed by the Audio Research player. Maybe they needed a Lightspeed as the pre.
I will post up the consenus/results from the news letter in the last week of the month.
Cheers George
Shamed is a bit rich.
PUT briefly.
ARC was articulate detailed but the timing was not too hot. Therefore musicality was disappointing.
The modded 990 was much less detailed with a slight smearing to the presentation which means it was less articulate. But one thing it did do well was the timing hence the musicality was improved.
So which is better?
They are different with different trade offs and also more importantly pricing.
So you pays your money and makes your choice.
I own neither.
My main player is the beautiful SONY SCD 777ES SACD player.
My other player is a modified Orelle CD 100 which i believe is a CDM 4 transport based player. It is avery fine player too.
All equipment sounds different and have different sound balances and attributes, and this is regardless of price, so you have to listen and make a choice.
If any product floats your boat buy it .
There are certain manufacturers out there who drive me wild over their pricing relative to the product performance. But they are successful and thrive in the market place, so what do i know.
The most important part of this wonderful hobby is:
Listening to the music, with a suitable glass of refreshment.
regards David
PUT briefly.
ARC was articulate detailed but the timing was not too hot. Therefore musicality was disappointing.
The modded 990 was much less detailed with a slight smearing to the presentation which means it was less articulate. But one thing it did do well was the timing hence the musicality was improved.
So which is better?
They are different with different trade offs and also more importantly pricing.
So you pays your money and makes your choice.
I own neither.
My main player is the beautiful SONY SCD 777ES SACD player.
My other player is a modified Orelle CD 100 which i believe is a CDM 4 transport based player. It is avery fine player too.
All equipment sounds different and have different sound balances and attributes, and this is regardless of price, so you have to listen and make a choice.
If any product floats your boat buy it .
There are certain manufacturers out there who drive me wild over their pricing relative to the product performance. But they are successful and thrive in the market place, so what do i know.
The most important part of this wonderful hobby is:
Listening to the music, with a suitable glass of refreshment.
regards David
DAVOhorn said:
Is this the Dave I think it is? Lasagna Dave?
(Private joke.)YOU have a top loader SCD-777ES? Potentially there is no better player on the planet. I have the SCD-555ES - not for sale and my permanent reference. No, it's not standard, far from it. No opamps, Terra Firma etc.
Re the ASoN comparison, I made sure I heard both while sitting in the optimum seat. I did not see anybody else do that. Less detailed or just less digital? That sums up my impression. Unbiased? No such thing.
The Orelle is indeed CDM4 and also TDA-1541A Philips DAC. Pretty much the same job I've done on 970 and 990 done to the Orelle and I reckon THAT would better both.
Joe R.
@Joe
Please excuse my newbie questions, but since you've already modded the HD 990, and I have one still in the box, made me think about something [scary, I know].
In my audio PC, I have an E-MU 1212m, that I would like to use mainly for the digital part to output S/PDIF to the DAC [HD 990]. The interesting thing about the E-MU is that I also got the sync daughercard that has Word Clock I/O.
I was thinking how possible it would be to slave the E-MU to the DAC in the HD 990. I understand that I would probably need to use an aftermarket clock. The LClock I was looking at has a Word Clock output that they claim should be used when syncing a transport/DAC combo.
Do you think this is feasible at all? Remove the internal clock, replace with the LClock, and connect the LClock BNC to the E-MU BNC for slaving.
And if possible, would there be a way to mount the LClock so that I can also use it with the HD 990's internal transport?
Please excuse my newbie questions, but since you've already modded the HD 990, and I have one still in the box, made me think about something [scary, I know].
In my audio PC, I have an E-MU 1212m, that I would like to use mainly for the digital part to output S/PDIF to the DAC [HD 990]. The interesting thing about the E-MU is that I also got the sync daughercard that has Word Clock I/O.
I was thinking how possible it would be to slave the E-MU to the DAC in the HD 990. I understand that I would probably need to use an aftermarket clock. The LClock I was looking at has a Word Clock output that they claim should be used when syncing a transport/DAC combo.
Do you think this is feasible at all? Remove the internal clock, replace with the LClock, and connect the LClock BNC to the E-MU BNC for slaving.
And if possible, would there be a way to mount the LClock so that I can also use it with the HD 990's internal transport?
InSides said:
Hi Marjan
Got your email.
It really comes down to what is practical and I don't really see it. Besides I don't have enough info at hand and it would take time to sort through.
It's not that there aren't any possibilities. I have the same E-MU card, it uses CS4398 'voltage' DAC that can be hotwired out via passive bandwidth filter, only capacitors and resistors.
But if you use the SPDIF on the E-MU, then upgrading the 990 in the way already I have done would do a very nice job. It would of course cost a lot more as it needs the clocking as well as the 'current' DAC needs an I/V converter of the highest standard. Then you have return air costs etc. But if considered, it is worth the cost as the performane would normally cost a lot more if looking elsewhere.
And you could compare the inbuilt transport against the SPDIF output on the E-MU. If you then found that the SPDIF sounded worse, then you could loo into clocking that.
The clocking on the E-MU is a DVD frequency (96KHz related), the 990 is a CD frequency (44.1KHz related) - so it's not ideal.
Again, the inbuilt 'true CD' clocking would be better, at least on paper.
Cheers.
Joe R.
georgehifi said:
I think George got it entirely wrong. The ASoN Newsletter is out now and the report that came in is very different, In part, says:
After the coffee break Joe replaced the ARC CD & DAC combo with his JLTi version of the new HK 990 CD player. I have heard his previous CD based on an earlier HK player and was disappointed, but this time it was a very pleasant surprise as it BOOGIED and swung so the timing was there for us to enjoy. So thank goodness it was not the speakers that was screwing up the timing or the amps. The dynamics I felt were improved and there was a greater sense of width to the soundstage and improved height. But there eemed to be a loss of detail and resolution compared to the ARC. So a trade off timing for resolution and detail, so only you can decide which was the preferable player.
Note he says there seemed less resolution. For somebody hearing that player for the first time I'd almost expect that. It's actually a positive quality. BUT he was less impressed by the ARC combo.
I disagree that the 990 had less resolution, what it has is less apparent resolution because, unlike the ususal PRAT type player, it does not force detail down the throat. This is very typical for Terra Firma Clock PS upgrade.
Here is the notes of an end user who owns a Terra Firma player, very experience and knows his stuff:
But I digress, because the Terra Firma (along with Joes other enhancements) has catapulted the [player] literally into another orbit entirely. This really isn't a review as such, but I simply feel compelled to attempt to express an intangible quality of absolute relaxed musicality, fluidity if you like, which has resulted, it is this release of tension which I can most equate to that appreciated when one goes from listening to CD to listening to vinyl.
I will qualify that I also have a half decent ~$18k vinyl rig and that neither fool me into thinking that I'm hearing live performance, that kind of tosh I'll leave for the "pro reviews" which will often tell you how suddenly they could smell the breath of Diana Crawl (sic) in their room etc...spare me already !!
No, what the Terra Firma apparently facilitates is quite simply an easing of the pressure of digital delivery and most pronouncedly an EXPANSION of all dimensions of the aural "bubble" in my room, time AND frequency domain.
Interestingly, and equally, there is more apparent micro detail, reverberant space is more readily discernible/definable in recordings as is the crucial initial envelope of sounds...so essentially there is more detail liberated, greater dynamic nuance and timing is delivered in such a way as to allow you brain to spend less time processing or filtering the medium to get to the essence of the music, the musicians timing, their intonation etc.
Counter intuitively, this enhanced presentation comes with INITIALLY less sense of heightened detail, again, and I really hate to equate, but for sake of a reference I will liken it to a more analogous sound (vinyl like-not really), but certainly more natural. I found myself turning up the volume much louder to "live" volume levels in my room more frequently as it simply was easier to absorb without duress (noted by my better half)
Interestingly, and equally, there is more apparent micro detail, reverberant space is more readily discernible/definable in recordings as is the crucial initial envelope of sounds...so essentially there is more detail liberated, greater dynamic nuance and timing is delivered in such a way as to allow you brain to spend less time processing or filtering the medium to get to the essence of the music, the musicians timing, their intonation etc.
Counter intuitively, this enhanced presentation comes with INITIALLY less sense of heightened detail, again, and I really hate to equate, but for sake of a reference I will liken it to a more analogous sound (vinyl like-not really), but certainly more natural. I found myself turning up the volume much louder to "live" volume levels in my room more frequently as it simply was easier to absorb without duress (noted by my better half)
I have very little in the way of music on SA-CD principally due to the fact that MOST of the music I own is not available on this technically superior format.
Yet I can unequivocally say that regardless of price, IMHO, my [player] now sounds more pleasing and connects me more to the recorded artists than any of the other players which I have recently auditioned, amongst which include the Audio Aero Prestige, Nagra CDP, Ayre CX5e and EMM CDSA.
Until now I was quite willing to pay whatever it was going to cost to find a digital source which didn't leave me unnerved after extended listening sessions, but the Terra Firma with Joes other relatively simple but highly effective mods has really put into perspective how atrociously overpriced and under performing virtually all other so called "ultra high end" digital sources are....I'm not saying they're crap by any stretch, just that I no longer feel the need to pay extortionate $$ for elaborate proprietary upsampling schemes (yeechh), mostly pointless & complex analogue output stages, nor for that matter unnecessarily complex transport mechanisms
As a musician, professional recording engineer and occasionally perverse tweeker of all things related to sound, I have arrived at the conclusion that once again, less is always more, particularly when implemented correctly !.
In the case of the Terra Firma, it appears to address and largely resolve what is perhaps the Achilles heel of nearly all digital audio devices.
The beauty of it's concept is that the equipment to which it is to be incorporated can readily be adapted to benefit almost immediately and without one being required to sell any of their organs in order to do so
)This was totally unsolicited and was posted online without my knowledge and somebody else brought it to my attention.
What I heard at ASoN was also a lack of so-called heightened detail, but all the detail was there. How could it not have more detail as it threw a soundstage that the ARC could not match, more width, height and depth. But nothing sounds forced and it takes a little while before you realise there is more resolution than you probably have ever heard before, and then you notice little (but important) things you didn't before.
Think about this for a second, because it shows something special is going on: How can a player that sounds unforced also have unbelievable good PRAT? Most players that sounds relaxed also sounds exactly the opposite. It is a paradox that I have only heard in digital with Terra Firma.
This is a problem of digital players, especially CD. What does the designer do? Does he go for the detail and excitement OR does he go for smoothness and aim for a more analog sound (it isn't) where it may sound less digital but now lacks resolution? Both are compromises. Now we can have both!!!
Bottom line: It's more music, less Hi-Fi.
Joe R.
DAVOhorn said:
This is what was the majority consensus, and this was your modded version for $2300!!! The standard HD990 is even worse, I didn't get it wrong, I call an ace an ace and a spade a spade, and in this case it's a spade and don't go for the monitory gain on everything I touch. I wipe my hands of the HD990 and praise it's predecessor the HD970, end of story.
And stop yelling in color, it's hideous!!!!
nice mod..thanks Joe
Hi all,
I just wanted to throw in my two cents worth...I have a hd970 that I have been slowly upgrading.First I replaced nearly all caps (except main supply ) with panasonic fm or fc...then all the signal smd resistors after the ad155 dac chip with vishay dale rn55?....and then with a burson clock for the laser servo...and also some bg nx 22uf caps for local decoupling at the digital reciever and transmitter.
All these mods were ok....but I was still stuck with a flat boring sound...then I read here that Joe Rasmussen recomended the lm4562 dual op amp...anyway I reaplaced both the i/v and gain op-amps ( I am gaining experience with smd soldering ! )...and guess what..bingo...man, they are really , really good op-amps...actually to me they sound more like a well implemented discrete stage.I didnt realise how closed in and undynamic the op275 is.
So, thanks Joe...let me know if you think I should try something else without spending too much.
Paul
Hi all,
I just wanted to throw in my two cents worth...I have a hd970 that I have been slowly upgrading.First I replaced nearly all caps (except main supply ) with panasonic fm or fc...then all the signal smd resistors after the ad155 dac chip with vishay dale rn55?....and then with a burson clock for the laser servo...and also some bg nx 22uf caps for local decoupling at the digital reciever and transmitter.
All these mods were ok....but I was still stuck with a flat boring sound...then I read here that Joe Rasmussen recomended the lm4562 dual op amp...anyway I reaplaced both the i/v and gain op-amps ( I am gaining experience with smd soldering ! )...and guess what..bingo...man, they are really , really good op-amps...actually to me they sound more like a well implemented discrete stage.I didnt realise how closed in and undynamic the op275 is.
So, thanks Joe...let me know if you think I should try something else without spending too much.
Paul
Dear All.
I love it when people change what is written.
The ARC is a very expensive two box player with transport and dac separate
The modded 990 is just that a modded commercial player.
They sound different.
One timed
One had greater detail resolution.
This is based upon limited listening time in a crap room using unfamiliar equipment and CD's i am not familiar with.
So it was a VERY SUBJECTIVE OPINION
Certainly should not be taken seiously as the article is a resume of what happened and is written to entertain and stimulate debate.
So i have been successful in stimulating debate, which is healthy.
Please before you make a definitive judgement on any piece of equipment use it in your home and in your current system and If it entertains you buy it.
IF NOT DONT.
SIMPLE.
The speakers were the equipment being reviewed not the source component.
George is modest in his comments and opinions and Joe ' s enthusiasm for this hobby shines through.
So make of their comments what you will.
Both individuals have commercial interest in modded HK players and you should read their observations with this in mind.
I on the other hand love HIFI and Music and am a consumer. I buy the equipment that i personally enjoy listening through.
I also love debate and reading peoples opinions on a variety of subjects.
regards David
Internationally accalimed HiFi reviewer??????
HAHAHAHA
dont take my mutterings seriously folks
I love it when people change what is written.
The ARC is a very expensive two box player with transport and dac separate
The modded 990 is just that a modded commercial player.
They sound different.
One timed
One had greater detail resolution.
This is based upon limited listening time in a crap room using unfamiliar equipment and CD's i am not familiar with.
So it was a VERY SUBJECTIVE OPINION
Certainly should not be taken seiously as the article is a resume of what happened and is written to entertain and stimulate debate.
So i have been successful in stimulating debate, which is healthy.
Please before you make a definitive judgement on any piece of equipment use it in your home and in your current system and If it entertains you buy it.
IF NOT DONT.
SIMPLE.
The speakers were the equipment being reviewed not the source component.
George is modest in his comments and opinions and Joe ' s enthusiasm for this hobby shines through.
So make of their comments what you will.
Both individuals have commercial interest in modded HK players and you should read their observations with this in mind.
I on the other hand love HIFI and Music and am a consumer. I buy the equipment that i personally enjoy listening through.
I also love debate and reading peoples opinions on a variety of subjects.
regards David
Internationally accalimed HiFi reviewer??????
HAHAHAHA
dont take my mutterings seriously folks
Ah, David sorry I have to correct you, you got that wrong, I have/had zero, nada, commercial interest in the HD990. I did in the HD970 but that disappeared Oct 2008 when production of that fine unit ceased.
I would never have any association with the HD990 this is why I sent it back to the distributor, as it's smp noise radiates right through everything within the interior of that unit like a cancer. It's not worth the time or money, a Marantz CD63 sounds better and they can be picked up used on ebay for less than $200.
Cheers George
I would never have any association with the HD990 this is why I sent it back to the distributor, as it's smp noise radiates right through everything within the interior of that unit like a cancer. It's not worth the time or money, a Marantz CD63 sounds better and they can be picked up used on ebay for less than $200.
Cheers George
DAVOhorn said:
I knew that was you, and don't call me dear.
Exactly. But everybody says that it lacks resolution and then change their mind after further listening. I think we should weigh their opinion higher as the have had more sufficient exposure and not just a listen in a 'crap room.'
You been reading my song sheet. I never make a final judgment and I am in fact a lot less trigger happy. There are too many trigger happy "reviewers" out there. Why do we always have to be in reviewer mode, why does audiophiles have this thing about shootout at ten paces? Can't you just listen and not be asked to judge? Can't the real question be "are you enjoying what you are listenin to" and not "do you think this is better than such-and-such equipment?"
When I go to ASoN meeting I often switch off and just take it as a break from whatever I am doing. I honestly don't care about the shootouts but instead find it more interesting to study what's going on and watch human nature. I often expect the best to do worst and the worst to do best. And I am usually about 80% correct.
Tomorrow I am taking along an amplifier that sounds sublime but not Hi-Fi. There will be a valve/tube amp shootout. I will consider it a badge of honour if it comes last. Most amplifiers and digital players have some indentifiable character, so if it grabs your attention you will more likely go for it. The very thing that rates lowest is refinement and that will never gain you any points in a shootout. But it will make for happy listening at home with a glass of the best in hand and perhaps enjoying it with a friend or two who just knows that the music is really flowing.
When was the last time that you had a shootout and somebody remarked how fluid and intricate a piece of eqipment sounds? Never happens as you will be comparing salt and sugar which has already masked the finer points of performance. It just becomes a mental overload.
I do sometimes to real A-B comparisons, but I match the two to about 0.1dB. Now that is truly instructive, but limit it to two only. But when you have A-B-C-D-E etc comparisons, forget it. You have now been reduced to a computer that is suffering data overload!
The only alternative to A-B is to live with the equipment. This will lead to the same conclusion as A-B comparisons. But it has been shown that it only works in non-pressured circumstances. As soon as you ask after a short listen "what do you think" and then feel pressure to express a verbal decision, pressured, then your ability and sensibility has already been derailed. Better to just relax, forget silly questions and make up your own mind. NEVER let somebody pressure you.
So tomorrow I will go with a frame of mind described above and just repeat what I said when Edgar asked to bring an amp, "I am game."
George, will your crusty self be there?
And David, the Lasagna was really good last time. Again?
Joe R.
Re: nice mod..thanks Joe
See George? I don't do everything for money.
Hotwiring from one side of the outputs of the I/V converter, via a 2-3uF coupling cap to block the DC there, then a series resistor typically 330-390R and the 1n8 to 2n2 to ground and wire to a new pair of RCA sockets on the back panel.
Then of course there is the clocking - don't actually replace the inbuilt oscillator but feed it from a new 3.3V power supply that has to be as good as anything on the planet - and that describes what Terra Firma does.
Now that would make it really sing. I agree on one part with George, that clock PS should not come of the player's smps supply but from a separate small power transformer.
Cheers.
Joe.
Chilli6565 said:
See George? I don't do everything for money.
Hotwiring from one side of the outputs of the I/V converter, via a 2-3uF coupling cap to block the DC there, then a series resistor typically 330-390R and the 1n8 to 2n2 to ground and wire to a new pair of RCA sockets on the back panel.
Then of course there is the clocking - don't actually replace the inbuilt oscillator but feed it from a new 3.3V power supply that has to be as good as anything on the planet - and that describes what Terra Firma does.
Now that would make it really sing. I agree on one part with George, that clock PS should not come of the player's smps supply but from a separate small power transformer.
Cheers.
Joe.
szoze said:
There are no qualities, if you have seen the circuit as I did at the Australian Distributor you will see that it is the same basics as the HD970 save for the dirty smp, an extra opamp in each channel for the I/V stage that has to be there for the dual AD1955's which give a small lift to the s/n ratio, and balanced outputs. Most of which get's bypassed with the mods Joe and I do anyway, all that stays in Joe's case is the dirty smp radiating it noise everywhere.
The strange thing is that DAVOhorn found that Joes mods to the HD970 (which are the same as he does to the HD990) sounded
"quote> I have heard his previous CD based on an earlier HK970 player and was disappointed, but this time it was a very pleasant surprise as it BOOGIED and swung so the timing was there for us to enjoy.<quote"
Nearly all other I talked you who listened it found it nowhere near as enjoyable.
This to me leave me perplexed, as he heard basically the same machine with the same "Joe" mods in each case save for the dirty smp on the one he did like. (does he like the smp noise?)
And you have found these thread as you wanted to see if you can improve on the standard HD990 "because"?
I'm afraid you've done your dough as nothing will bring it up to the standard of the HD970, even the circuit board material is the cheap nasty black stuff that seems to be made out of compressed cardboard that is nowhere near as good as proper fiberglass boards!
It's a cheap reincarnation of the HD970, with a better looking exterior.
Cheers George
georgehifi said:
And here you are still talking about the things you see on HD990 and about the things other people heard. What did you hear? I don't care about improving on the standard HD990 as I think it sounds great for that amount of money. I found this thread when I was searching for reviews and found your statements, the only negative statements about this cd-player. Because?
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