In my opinion, both type and value is very important in C906. That the type matters, you have discovered for yourself already; I commented regarding values a few posts above.
Of all the caps I tested in C906, the best by far was the hand-made VNM Cap. I am eagerly awaiting Peter's comments on it - I sent him a sample and he was going to compare it with the V-Cap.
Although knowing this does not really change a lot, does it? I mean, now that you know this, are you able to predict what capacitor construction or value will give the best sound?... I'm afraid we still have to discover this by experimentation.
By the way, it is entirely possible that tweaking other parts connected to pins 1-16 of the LA9242M would also result in pronounced improvements as they all supply laser servo logic. Unfortunately, as they are all SMD, fiddling with them is a bit more awkward...
Of all the caps I tested in C906, the best by far was the hand-made VNM Cap. I am eagerly awaiting Peter's comments on it - I sent him a sample and he was going to compare it with the V-Cap.
I hate do disagree, but I highly doubt Sanyo would have gone to any lengths optimising a circuit intended for cheap portable players. They likely picked something that was guaranteed to work and left it at that. I mean, most electronics engineers ridicule the very notion that diferent cap types etc. can affect the sound - I somehow don't see them spending a lot of time researching optimal-sounding servo capacitors, if you see what I mean...
According to the boombox schematic (page 22), C906 is connected to pin 10 of LA9242M. The latter's datasheet reveals that pin 10 (TH) is responsible for "Tracking gain time constant" - in other words one of the laser servo adjustments.
Although knowing this does not really change a lot, does it? I mean, now that you know this, are you able to predict what capacitor construction or value will give the best sound?... I'm afraid we still have to discover this by experimentation.
By the way, it is entirely possible that tweaking other parts connected to pins 1-16 of the LA9242M would also result in pronounced improvements as they all supply laser servo logic. Unfortunately, as they are all SMD, fiddling with them is a bit more awkward...
Hi my cap at 906 has NATCON on it, I have searched the net and only come up with AMETEKncc - Home which don't seem to manufacture caps although they are an electronic controls manufacturer.
It seems odd to me that Sanyo would use such an elusive cap, why not one of their own.
It seems odd to me that Sanyo would use such an elusive cap, why not one of their own.
I must disagree with your disagreement
Boomboxes are extremely unforgiving environments for reading a CD. Designing something for that environment is probably more demanding than a 'Hi-Fi' one... The intense vibrations from the nearby built-in speakers make reading a CD without skipping FAR more difficult than the average stand-alone CD player. They seemed to do a very good job designing this board - the fact so many of us are using it and 47-labs (albeit a somewhat different variant) indicates that perhaps Sanyo DOES know what they are doing, and very well too To say they just sort of threw it in there with hardly any thought strikes me as being a little unrealistic...No I am not able to predict what changes will sound like as this isn't a 'simple' case like a coupling cap (for example) - I trust them to have chosen that value/cap for laser gain for a reason. The fact so many of us (including Peter) ended up going back to this cap (cheap though it appears to be) says a lot. And so what if it is a cheap non-audiophile branded cap? Ultimately, it works & works very well. I think part of the secret of this 'game' is knowing when to leave well alone, as well as going mad changing every part one can see...
As I said I am not anti-modding/experimenting at all (my parts box, wallet and burnt fingers will attest to that
) but I think sometimes we change every part just because we can, without knowing exactly what it is we could be doing to part of the circuit, especially when dealing with the laser gain. It's just from my own experience tweaking this mech. over the past couple years I'd refrain from throwing money at that cap. However obviously I haven't heard your home-made cap - that does sound intriguing and I'll have a look at that link now Perfectly willing to be proven wrong and all that
- J
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I do see your point johnm. This cap is indeed a very strange animal, and it is entirely possible that it was picked for a reason (although that reason may have been reliability rather than sound).
Having said that, I designed my cap specifically for C906 and specifically for best sound quality. And while I do agree that most (almost all) caps sound worse than the stock electrolytic, I still maintain that my cap is way beyond vague, partial improvements some reported - it's better by an order of magnitude, across the board.
I have the impression that the transport is slightly more susceptible to skips with my cap installed - so there may be some resilience / sound qality trade off here, likely to do with the low value.
If you are really willing to be proven wrong, then I am willing to provide the opportunity I can lend you a sample cap for testing, if you're interested.
Having said that, I designed my cap specifically for C906 and specifically for best sound quality. And while I do agree that most (almost all) caps sound worse than the stock electrolytic, I still maintain that my cap is way beyond vague, partial improvements some reported - it's better by an order of magnitude, across the board.
I have the impression that the transport is slightly more susceptible to skips with my cap installed - so there may be some resilience / sound qality trade off here, likely to do with the low value.
If you are really willing to be proven wrong, then I am willing to provide the opportunity
I can lend you a sample cap for testing, if you're interested.Dear uleon. Ok Got some black Gates. So now its a BG fk 2200uf/63v (it says electron transfer in top) and BG x 1000uf/25v and c916 is BG fk 47uf/16v. C906 is 0,1uf duelund Alexander(staus in for now). Just started listen and pleasent improvement.I do see your point johnm. This cap is indeed a very strange animal, and it is entirely possible that it was picked for a reason (although that reason may have been reliability rather than sound).
Having said that, I designed my cap specifically for C906 and specifically for best sound quality. And while I do agree that most (almost all) caps sound worse than the stock electrolytic, I still maintain that my cap is way beyond vague, partial improvements some reported - it's better by an order of magnitude, across the board.
I have the impression that the transport is slightly more susceptible to skips with my cap installed - so there may be some resilience / sound qality trade off here, likely to do with the low value.
If you are really willing to be proven wrong, then I am willing to provide the opportunity
Well done Kakselbo, you have collected very nearly the best caps possible! Now, if you want to take them to the next level, have a look at my "wood-modding capacitors" guide
Haha..no I think I have to end the shigamania..and start looking towards my yet simple and humble AN dac. I fried something in my shiga because all this taking board of and on I got mixed up in my head that my marking on 8vpower cable was the ground and not plus..ups!! And I guess my playing around with c906 and c908 resulted in together with my mistake in some weird skipping and "black holes". So just did an entire new shiga and together with the BG psu...NIRVANA..no skip,no glitch its just so musical,,! Thank you forum..and uleon.,and peterDWell done Kakselbo, you have collected very nearly the best caps possible! Now, if you want to take them to the next level, have a look at my "wood-modding capacitors" guide
My personal experience with this cap ( C906 ) is that while it is indeed very important, settled on a russian teflon thingie....the most gain to be had in terms of sound quality...ie: tranparancy, dynamics.....is from a really good 5v supply.
I'm using a salas shunt reg and the jump in quality was imense, have a bobken ready to try...will report.
I'm using a salas shunt reg and the jump in quality was imense, have a bobken ready to try...will report.
changing caps can seriously damage your health
I tried the Oscon in 916 but couldn't quite get away with it so I swapped the nichion muse back in.
I thought I would try a variety of caps in 906 at the same time.
Some skipped some wouldn't read the toc.
I dropped the 0.1uf standard one in and played a disc.
The disc kept stopping at random places, couldn't tie it down to a pattern.
I swapped the laser with a spare and it now plays ok.
I can only presume that the laser assembly does not take kindly to different values of 906.
My advice would be to leave 906 value well alone for your lasers sake.
I have now compared the marantz 63 digital out with the clone and the clone wins hands down, the Marantz sounds muddy and indistinct in comparison.
I didn't think it would be so clear cut , just comparing transports.
I tried the Oscon in 916 but couldn't quite get away with it so I swapped the nichion muse back in.
I thought I would try a variety of caps in 906 at the same time.
Some skipped some wouldn't read the toc.
I dropped the 0.1uf standard one in and played a disc.
The disc kept stopping at random places, couldn't tie it down to a pattern.
I swapped the laser with a spare and it now plays ok.
I can only presume that the laser assembly does not take kindly to different values of 906.
My advice would be to leave 906 value well alone for your lasers sake.
I have now compared the marantz 63 digital out with the clone and the clone wins hands down, the Marantz sounds muddy and indistinct in comparison.
I didn't think it would be so clear cut , just comparing transports.
Hi John, I now listening a number of weeks to the new Sanyo 'puckless' hub.
The disc stopping at random places and sometimes it skips.
Have several Sanyo ' puckless ' hub tried but still the same, have orderd 4 pieces.
Regards,
Rudy
The disc stopping at random places and sometimes it skips.
Have several Sanyo ' puckless ' hub tried but still the same, have orderd 4 pieces.
Regards,
Rudy
Had some spare time today to install the new Sanyo 'puckless' hub and new laser which I purchased via Ebay last week.
Installation was a tad fiddly and - for the second time trying replacement transports on Shiga - I forgot to remove the solder blob from the laser so it didn't work first time. Doh! After slapping my forehead I took it apart again, desoldered that point, but it all together again and - whew! - it worked first time.
I'm extremely pleased with it and, after my experiences using Shiga with one of Fran's superb screw-on pucks too, this new mech. has convinced me that not using the magnetic clamp really does make a worthwhile difference. Hard to describve exactly, but I'd say the music 'grooves' better - it flows more naturally. Every instrument is located firmly in its own space with no 'fuzzy edges'. 'S's on vocals are extremely clear now - totally sibilant free. I thought they were before, but in comparison the music was very slightly blurred using the stock JVC puck. Music has a reassuring 'solidity' that it didn't quite possess before; every instrument exists clearly in its own acoustic space. Very firm bass.
I also noticed, when looking at spinning CDs side-on, that very slight wobbles on certain discs before seem to have vanished with this 3-bearing style hub. I can detect no wobble at all as discs spin which must bode well for more accurate reading of CDs. It looks like the disc is still in fact.
So for £7 I'd recommend anyone to try this replacement mechanism out. To my mind it is superior to the original magnetic puck system, and is far more conveniant to use than a screw-on clamp & offers the same performance gains.
Here's some pics to show the difference - hope it's of interest to someone
- John
John, are you sure you haven't accidentally damaged something else while replacing caps?... I have been swapping caps A LOT in my transport, and (knock on wood) everything works well...
If you can't live with Os-Con in C916, then maybe try Starget - they have better detail than Nichicons, and are warmer than Os-Cons. It would only be a small improvement though.
Yeah, Shigaclone is truly great - it only really needs a C-reg-C power supply on some half-decent caps to beat "budget audiophile" transports. Apply further mods as per Peter's thread, and you have essentially a Hi-End transport.
If you can't live with Os-Con in C916, then maybe try Starget - they have better detail than Nichicons, and are warmer than Os-Cons. It would only be a small improvement though.
Yeah, Shigaclone is truly great - it only really needs a C-reg-C power supply on some half-decent caps to beat "budget audiophile" transports. Apply further mods as per Peter's thread, and you have essentially a Hi-End transport.
I'm using this DAC: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/audio-sector/187748-pushing-limits-tda1543-nos-dac.html in this system: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/audio-sector/187748-pushing-limits-tda1543-nos-dac-3.html#post2560509
For critical comparisons, I'm using an alternative system: New Page 2
hi Rudy,
I took the laser from a spare of the puckless variety, It now seems to play ok, doesn't like scanning tracks with the remote though, it gets confused and stops playing.
Hi Leon, It's working ok now with the new laser so I can only think the laser did not like some of the values I tried.
I took the laser from a spare of the puckless variety, It now seems to play ok, doesn't like scanning tracks with the remote though, it gets confused and stops playing.
Hi Leon, It's working ok now with the new laser so I can only think the laser did not like some of the values I tried.
Hi..i guess chaging value in c906 changes something permanent in the servo. I have no idea, because im not a tech guy and only apply mods from what you expert have done. But my first shiga board started to act weird and after I finished a new board with c906 value 0,1 I had no problem. At my first board I could not set it straight even going back to original value..?strange? I now use Duelund Alexander cap, I have no clue why
but it sounds great to all of you who use vishay s102 or var series...can any give some info of where you purchase...uleon( are my backup) I can only find 330r ( maybe some can explain these 300/100value and how I calculate.
You can buy naked Vishays from PartsConnexion or from Michael Percy. Both also sell Caddock MK132. I have replied to your email already - have you not received it?
These values were chosen because they form a voltage divider:
Vout = [ Rg / (Rs + Rg) ] * Vin
In our case, the Vin (which is the Digital Out of Shiga) is 2V. The ideal (or expected) voltage for the receiver chip is 0.5V. Hence, we need a 1:4 voltage divider:
Code:
0.5V = [ 100R / (300R + 100R) ] * 2V
0.5V = (100/400) * 2V
0.5V = 1/4*2VBut much more importantly, these values were simply found to sound best
So a 100/330 could work or should i then go 110/330? Im not sure if i Can hear any difference from my shinkoh setup going to caddock/s102 or caddock/vishay var. But willing to try it out before soldering the last bits together.You can buy naked Vishays from PartsConnexion or from Michael Percy. Both also sell Caddock MK132. I have replied to your email already - have you not received it?
These values were chosen because they form a voltage divider:
Vout = [ Rg / (Rs + Rg) ] * Vin
In our case, the Vin (which is the Digital Out of Shiga) is 2V. The ideal (or expected) voltage for the receiver chip is 0.5V. Hence, we need a 1:4 voltage divider:
Code:0.5V = [ 100R / (300R + 100R) ] * 2V 0.5V = (100/400) * 2V 0.5V = 1/4*2V
But much more importantly, these values were simply found to sound best
And in my audio note dac i have two resistors in the output after the output caps, Will there be anything gained with caddock in that place or vishays. I Can see Peter Daniel use these brands heavily in his designs. Or should I just go with tantalum resistors
Hi Peter,
Thanks for the reply on the DAC you are using.
I've finally managed to track down some BSPs and made a couple of BOBKEN regulators to test.
No load noise is arround 0.0025mv.
Will try it tomorrow in the Shiga
NOTE: corrected schematic attatched
Thanks for the reply on the DAC you are using.
I've finally managed to track down some BSPs and made a couple of BOBKEN regulators to test.
No load noise is arround 0.0025mv.
Will try it tomorrow in the Shiga
NOTE: corrected schematic attatched
Attachments
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