I guess that Turbon's intention may have been more along the lines of "we should follow the suit" 
Good find with the C960, j baldam. I will make another VNM Cap and try this at some point.
Any particular reason why you decided to go for a 470/50 Nichicon in C916? I've compared countless caps in this position, but admittedly never went above 100uF; the sweet spot to my ear was 47uF, with 33uF typically sounding a bit too thin and 100uF sounding a bit too muddy...
Good find with the C960, j baldam. I will make another VNM Cap and try this at some point.
Any particular reason why you decided to go for a 470/50 Nichicon in C916? I've compared countless caps in this position, but admittedly never went above 100uF; the sweet spot to my ear was 47uF, with 33uF typically sounding a bit too thin and 100uF sounding a bit too muddy...
Hi Leon,
Can't claim the credit for replacing c906 EDIT with a film Peter has done it in a pic earlier but using the Obligato is a revelation to me.
I tried a 47uf silmic in 916 and wasn't impressed, no real change.
May have needed time but I'm impatient so I looked to see what I had and dropped the 470 muse in.
Immediate difference, darker, richer sound with extremely detailed vocals and a sweetness to female vocal with no sibliance.
Standard K Melua has a whistley edge to her vocal but the 470 cures this and shows more inflections in her voice.
On my previous post, I know that a lot of posters have really gone to town modding their board, but it is sometimes forgotten that there are a lot of posters who cannot hope to go that far and my post was posted to point out that the clone can sound brilliant with just a couple of mods as per peters latest thread.
Can't claim the credit for replacing c906 EDIT with a film Peter has done it in a pic earlier but using the Obligato is a revelation to me.
I tried a 47uf silmic in 916 and wasn't impressed, no real change.
May have needed time but I'm impatient so I looked to see what I had and dropped the 470 muse in.
Immediate difference, darker, richer sound with extremely detailed vocals and a sweetness to female vocal with no sibliance.
Standard K Melua has a whistley edge to her vocal but the 470 cures this and shows more inflections in her voice.
On my previous post, I know that a lot of posters have really gone to town modding their board, but it is sometimes forgotten that there are a lot of posters who cannot hope to go that far and my post was posted to point out that the clone can sound brilliant with just a couple of mods as per peters latest thread.
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@j baldam - fair enough... are you using the built-in DAC by any chance? From the sound you are describing (sybilant, and somewhat treble-heavy) it seems like it's the onboard DAC.
Also, your original choice of cap for testing (Silmic) was rather unfortunate, as it is among the worst-sounding for this position... Do give it another try with a 47uF Starget or OsCon (I'd be happy to send you one).
Edit: you made a new post while I was writing mine... So let me get this straight, you replaced the C906 (0.1uF electrolytic) with a 0.22uF Obbligato, and C916 (220uf electrolytic) with a 470uF Nichicon? Well, no surprise at the immediate change from the C906... although I again went a lot lower, the optimum I found is 10nF or just below. More than 12nF and less than 8nF generally loses detail. The sound will heavily depend on the capacitor type too.
Also, your original choice of cap for testing (Silmic) was rather unfortunate, as it is among the worst-sounding for this position... Do give it another try with a 47uF Starget or OsCon (I'd be happy to send you one).
Edit: you made a new post while I was writing mine...
So let me get this straight, you replaced the C906 (0.1uF electrolytic) with a 0.22uF Obbligato, and C916 (220uf electrolytic) with a 470uF Nichicon? Well, no surprise at the immediate change from the C906... although I again went a lot lower, the optimum I found is 10nF or just below. More than 12nF and less than 8nF generally loses detail. The sound will heavily depend on the capacitor type too.
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Hi Leon, yes c906, sorry for the confusion, as in the pic above.
I'm using a chinese Dac
Finished 2496 (AK4396) CS8416 DAC With Transformer+case | eBay
Not run in yet.
I have often had trouble with K Meluas strange edge but at last it has gone.
My Marantz 63se has difficulty.
I'm using a chinese Dac
Finished 2496 (AK4396) CS8416 DAC With Transformer+case | eBay
Not run in yet.
I have often had trouble with K Meluas strange edge but at last it has gone.
My Marantz 63se has difficulty.
J, have a look at my "Big capacitor test".
I have tested more caps since, but none of them were worthwhile, so my observations above remain largely the same - except "no cap" at C916, which I now consider inferior to Starget.
You might also want to take a look at my other tests.
As regards C906, its peculiar nature spurred me to develop my own capacitor, which turned out to be superior to any commercial stuff I tried so far. Here is how the story began, but I later made a vastly superior design, (VNM Cap). I have also recently devised my own hand-made resistors - still in prototype stage, but they are significantly better than any of the resistor elite, including Caddocks and Vishays (and yes, I realise how bold a claim that is). Meanwhile, I'm also working on an even more intricate capacitor design, but dear god, it had better work as intended because it's going to cost me A LOT to make it...
I have tested more caps since, but none of them were worthwhile, so my observations above remain largely the same - except "no cap" at C916, which I now consider inferior to Starget.
You might also want to take a look at my other tests.
As regards C906, its peculiar nature spurred me to develop my own capacitor, which turned out to be superior to any commercial stuff I tried so far. Here is how the story began, but I later made a vastly superior design, (VNM Cap). I have also recently devised my own hand-made resistors - still in prototype stage, but they are significantly better than any of the resistor elite, including Caddocks and Vishays (and yes, I realise how bold a claim that is). Meanwhile, I'm also working on an even more intricate capacitor design, but dear god, it had better work as intended because it's going to cost me A LOT to make it...
Hi Leon, I'll take time out this morning to read the tests, the girlfriend is on nights
Just read with intrest your wooden cap mod.
Facinating, If Fred Flintstone had a hi fi Seriously though fantastic work.
Your VNM caps look very interesting too.
As you say, art, trying to imagine a whole pcb made up with these caps.
Just read with intrest your wooden cap mod.
Facinating, If Fred Flintstone had a hi fi
Seriously though fantastic work.Your VNM caps look very interesting too.
As you say, art, trying to imagine a whole pcb made up with these caps.
Not yet done with my shigaclone..but at c906 i have now a scr teflon tin cap supersound 0.047uf before i had a audio note 0.01uf cufoil, but the scr changed everything..now it reads all the details i Had with the AN but now with more dynamics and more soft treble and wider stage. One leg in Ground and other leg prolonged with silverwire to the chip. I have a oscon 47uf at the c916 and use nichicon FG and Elna Carafine in psu. Hardwired with silver to board. Output Resistors is 1w shinkoh. Will try changing c908 and some more later when the Teflon has settled, also try another at c916.J, have a look at my "Big capacitor test".
I have tested more caps since, but none of them were worthwhile, so my observations above remain largely the same - except "no cap" at C916, which I now consider inferior to Starget.
You might also want to take a look at my other tests.
As regards C906, its peculiar nature spurred me to develop my own capacitor, which turned out to be superior to any commercial stuff I tried so far. Here is how the story began, but I later made a vastly superior design, (VNM Cap). I have also recently devised my own hand-made resistors - still in prototype stage, but they are significantly better than any of the resistor elite, including Caddocks and Vishays (and yes, I realise how bold a claim that is). Meanwhile, I'm also working on an even more intricate capacitor design, but dear god, it had better work as intended because it's going to cost me A LOT to make it...
My case is starting to evolve.
Here it is after adding 2kg of mass in the form of divers lead shot on top of an alluminium base.
I'm probably unknowingly making one huge capacitor
Here it is after adding 2kg of mass in the form of divers lead shot on top of an alluminium base.
I'm probably unknowingly making one huge capacitor
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Why Allen Bradley? Were they 1watts? I use shinkoh tantalums, but did any test if there is any noticeable difference besides brand names
(I do have some bradleys but need to oven dry them and shellacking).
Why Allen Bradley? Were they 1watts? I use shinkoh tantalums, but did any test if there is any noticeable difference besides brand names
Shinkoh are a pretty good choice for the shunt position - they have a touch more detail than Caddock MK132, but their presentation is rather dry and somewhat skewed towards upper registers. Caddock is slightly muddy in comparison, but definitely more natural and pleasant overall.
Kiwame sound nice and a bit warm, but resolution suffers. Audio Note are perhaps slightly more neutral than Kiwame, but not any better in terms of detail. Amtrans have a very energetic sound, but they always introduce prominent midrange colourations, so don't bother with them. I haven't tried AB resistors yet...
In series position "nude Vishay" is undisputably the best.
Thank you for great info. I don't know anything only try and listen. So please help me with the shunt and series info. The 300/100 are they supposed to be same brand of resistor? Or did you mention vishays because there is somewhere they go in. Why I did mention the AB was because Erik used it(read it somewhere and was curious if some had compared resistors..and I hoped you did
) because black gates are diff to get, I tried mixing and matching to my own setup. Resistors could be solution to some minor correction.
I find that resistors have certain sonic signature that always filters through to a degree, regardless of the position. But having said that, that signature can work differently - Vishay is perhaps the best example: it is rather unbearable in shunt position (thin sound, you end up listening to detail, not music), but gives good results in series position (great clarity).
In other words, the recommended configuration is:
Series position - 300R "nude" Vishay, no other resistor comes close
Shunt position - 100R - Caddock MK132 is the most pleasant (warm), Shinkoh has a bit better resolution, but sounds dry and cold. Other resistors were inferior.
Bear in mind, the above comments relate to commercially produced resistors. A much better resitor CAN be made - although not so cheaply.
In other words, the recommended configuration is:
Series position - 300R "nude" Vishay, no other resistor comes close
Shunt position - 100R - Caddock MK132 is the most pleasant (warm), Shinkoh has a bit better resolution, but sounds dry and cold. Other resistors were inferior.
Bear in mind, the above comments relate to commercially produced resistors. A much better resitor CAN be made - although not so cheaply.