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Old 14th February 2013, 10:08 PM   #6721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyptony View Post
Nice. I'm still wondering, though, about using metal screws and creating multiple ground points through the frame.

I was thinking of using a steel or nylon washer below the frame with a coil spring on the washer to create a "floating" transport. Washer and nut on top to hold things down, but in effect not hard mounted. Spring stiffness can be adjusted with the nut to perhaps tweak the sound.

Didn't some of the higher end transports use floating or bushing mounted mechanisms?
If you use mechanism with integrated PCB it is simple to apply floating design ,just make the wings say 10cm coming from four perforations on steel mechanism plate where usually standoffs are screwed.Than you can do four standoffs which can be used to attack the spring like that on picture and than you can suspend the mechanism on bottom of the spring and test with added lead weights on the extremity of the wings till the mechanism get stable when spinning and test with more or less mass to your liking.Here is my TT mass loaded springs example.
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Old 14th February 2013, 10:31 PM   #6722
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Originally Posted by uncle_leon View Post
That is a wonderful idea, I was contemplating doing this sort of comparison myself when I was doing my big capacitor tests. Clocks and oscillators are among the most contended Shiga components - there is little agreement at all (which is why I hesitate to include the subject in my Shigaclone guide).

If you would accept a suggestion from me, consider conducting your tests with all clocks powered from identical PSUs (or PSUs based on the same topology where differing clock requirements preclude using the exact same PSU). I think it is safe to assume that the clock's PSU will affect the resulting sound, which in turn could result in skewed or downright false conclusions regarding the performance of the clocks themselves.



Hi alphaigor, I love how focused and radical your approach is. Your rig reminds me of nemo1968's hand-built Shiga mech:
Finally, an affordable CD Transport: the Shigaclone story. I wonder if you have seen it?



In my experience brass is the best (or copper or bronze, if you can get them). These three are the best "vibration conductors", which is the most important factor when mounting the mech rigidly. Grounding is irrelevant, as the mech frame is not connected to any electrical circuit (and if there are any spurious induced currents, it is certainly better to dissipate them over a large conductor, than try to contain them in a small frame).

uncle_leon ,
In fact nemo1968 is myself.I couldn't log in one day so I made new account and was obligated to use different name since nemo was lost somewhere under the virtual sea surface and still exist somewhere.This is the updated version of that same Nautilus ,it even uses 150Ah lead-gell battery as fuel like Nautilus did in Verne book with exception that the Nautilus battery was sodium/mercury.I am glad that you like it.
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Old 14th February 2013, 11:11 PM   #6723
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Interesting approach to slow down the sled.
It would be an interesting experiment. When I receive the new mechanics I will try it.
Perhaps we could also slow it gradually down by attenuating the motor signal in steps to better see any bennefits? Perhaps with a series/shunt 10k trimmer? This might also allow for a better track skipping time.
By the way I completely understand what you mean that digital pushes us to skip tracks while vinyl pushes us to listen to at least entire songs...
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Old 14th February 2013, 11:20 PM   #6724
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Originally Posted by alphaigor View Post
If you use mechanism with integrated PCB it is simple to apply floating design ,just make the wings say 10cm coming from four perforations on steel mechanism plate where usually standoffs are screwed.Than you can do four standoffs which can be used to attack the spring like that on picture and than you can suspend the mechanism on bottom of the spring and test with added lead weights on the extremity of the wings till the mechanism get stable when spinning and test with more or less mass to your liking.Here is my TT mass loaded springs example.
Wow. You sir, are on the edge! Of what, I don't know. Seriously, that's very impressive

I was actually thinking of doing this in the opposite direction. Imagine these standoffs mounted to the bottom plate of the enclosure. The male threaded part then has a flat washer on it followed by a spring. The spring is of wide enough diameter that the transport frame can rest right on them when the ends of the standoffs are through the holes in the TT frame. Then a washer and nut on the top of the standoff.

Mounting the TT rigidly on to even two standoffs follows the philosophy of transferring vibration into a high mass target. Spring mounting assumes the philosophy of damping the vibration through lossy material. I wonder which one will work better? Easy enough to try both.
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Old 14th February 2013, 11:54 PM   #6725
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Originally Posted by dimkasta View Post
Interesting approach to slow down the sled.
It would be an interesting experiment. When I receive the new mechanics I will try it.
Perhaps we could also slow it gradually down by attenuating the motor signal in steps to better see any bennefits? Perhaps with a series/shunt 10k trimmer? This might also allow for a better track skipping time.
By the way I completely understand what you mean that digital pushes us to skip tracks while vinyl pushes us to listen to at least entire songs...
dimkasta,
I see we are speaking the same black language.Digital is good when possibly not so digital.Before I settled on silicon thread solution I realized that adding a series resistance to motor resulted in more human sound.The only problem was that the chip was slightly hotter than usual so I took a mechanical RPM reduction route solution and it worked.Shunting I haven't tried because I was afraid to eventually burn the chip and since series connection gave result that was proof that something can be done different way.
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Old 15th February 2013, 12:21 AM   #6726
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You really need to post some better photos or a vid

By the way, which is the chip that was running hot? The bridge?
Perhaps we could help it with a simple npn buffer?

Anyway, I m a bit suspicious of how the slowing down could affect the reading workflow... The x1 speed and the analogue analogy sounds nice, but it could just be that the mechanism never gets the chance to correct errors and the chip or the dac just fills in the blanks...
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Old 15th February 2013, 12:50 AM   #6727
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Originally Posted by tonyptony View Post
Wow. You sir, are on the edge! Of what, I don't know. Seriously, that's very impressive

I was actually thinking of doing this in the opposite direction. Imagine these standoffs mounted to the bottom plate of the enclosure. The male threaded part then has a flat washer on it followed by a spring. The spring is of wide enough diameter that the transport frame can rest right on them when the ends of the standoffs are through the holes in the TT frame. Then a washer and nut on the top of the standoff.

Mounting the TT rigidly on to even two standoffs follows the philosophy of transferring vibration into a high mass target. Spring mounting assumes the philosophy of damping the vibration through lossy material. I wonder which one will work better? Easy enough to try both.
Yes ,that is right.You can test both approaches that way and you will be the judge of the result.If you like both solutions sound you can try hanged springs with mass concentrated on the point where spring is connected to mechanism.Lead weights if thick enough are excellent for combining hard standoff solution and soft one because of mass concentration on energy transfer point and thanks to springs there is less feedback from outside which is good for laser.
Maybe my TT solution is extreme but it works for me.TT springs from the photo are not just connected to chassis and sub chassis they are decoupled from them with spikes so the spring don't upset anything when activated because spikes prevent springs to move in spiral direction clockwise and anticlockwise endlessly and that way the resonance of the spring is very low almost zero hertz so we arrive close to hard platform solution but without feedback problem.Imagine that this TT use air tangential arm which is mission impossible for soft suspended tables.Arm see this sub chassis as solid one thanks to spikes stabilizers which prevent horizontal play when vertical movement occur.
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Old 15th February 2013, 01:39 AM   #6728
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Originally Posted by dimkasta View Post
You really need to post some better photos or a vid

By the way, which is the chip that was running hot? The bridge?
Perhaps we could help it with a simple npn buffer?

Anyway, I m a bit suspicious of how the slowing down could affect the reading workflow... The x1 speed and the analogue analogy sounds nice, but it could just be that the mechanism never gets the chance to correct errors and the chip or the dac just fills in the blanks...
I will try to find some better photo device.The chip equipped with heat sink feels hotter with series resistor.
Maybe that is right in theory but my practical experiment gave me more details in reproduction and more effortless sound.When you look in mechanism gears you will see that the movements are so fast that is impossible that laser is not stressed with that aggressive motion.When I softened the motion by resistor ,gears were moved more gently and the laser became much quieter which led me to conclusion that laser have less mechanical correction to do otherwise would simply start to skip if not driven fast enough by sled motor.With silicon thread I am not able to hear laser noise anymore and I hear details that I usually hear on LP record which I didn't heard on CD disc of equivalent material.Maybe my solution is questionable but the music heard through this approach is right in every way.The sound is not boring like with some 10000eur ,washed out players with advanced error correction ,but opposite.I think that there are no blanks inserted.
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Old 15th February 2013, 08:00 AM   #6729
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cool

Do you remember the value of the resistor?
Thinking about it now, shouldn't a series resistor make it an easier load?
Also, have you tried adding a ceramic cap on the motor (0,1uF or something)? This should make it even more quite and further prevent noise spikes
An interesting article that agrees with your cabling observations is here
Pololu - 9. Dealing with Motor Noise
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Old 15th February 2013, 10:04 AM   #6730
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Originally Posted by dimkasta View Post
cool

Do you remember the value of the resistor?
Thinking about it now, shouldn't a series resistor make it an easier load?
Also, have you tried adding a ceramic cap on the motor (0,1uF or something)? This should make it even more quite and further prevent noise spikes
An interesting article that agrees with your cabling observations is here
Pololu - 9. Dealing with Motor Noise
If I remember well it was value about 30-50ohm but don't take my word ,start with 10ohm for example and than see what happens.I didn't tried cap.I thought the same about loud but the result was opposite.Maybe the chip did have to do more polarity alternations because the motor reacted slower for chip but enough fast for laser needs,I have no idea.The fact is that the heat sink turned normal when I removed resistor.It is not big problem if you piggyback solder some copper foil on heat sink to increase efficiency.I only know that now when the motor have constant rotation in one direction the chip is nearly cold and not slightly warm like before without the resistor on motor.
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