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Old 14th November 2011, 09:51 PM   #5101
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I guess that Turbon's intention may have been more along the lines of "we should follow the suit"

Good find with the C960, j baldam. I will make another VNM Cap and try this at some point.

Any particular reason why you decided to go for a 470/50 Nichicon in C916? I've compared countless caps in this position, but admittedly never went above 100uF; the sweet spot to my ear was 47uF, with 33uF typically sounding a bit too thin and 100uF sounding a bit too muddy...
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Old 14th November 2011, 09:57 PM   #5102
Nomdi is offline Nomdi  France
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Hi all !
C960 ?
Electrolytics ?
On the schematics its a 104p bypassing
C953...
Can you show it on the PCB please ?
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Old 14th November 2011, 10:03 PM   #5103
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Hi Leon,
Can't claim the credit for replacing c906 EDIT with a film Peter has done it in a pic earlier but using the Obligato is a revelation to me.
I tried a 47uf silmic in 916 and wasn't impressed, no real change.
May have needed time but I'm impatient so I looked to see what I had and dropped the 470 muse in.
Immediate difference, darker, richer sound with extremely detailed vocals and a sweetness to female vocal with no sibliance.
Standard K Melua has a whistley edge to her vocal but the 470 cures this and shows more inflections in her voice.

On my previous post, I know that a lot of posters have really gone to town modding their board, but it is sometimes forgotten that there are a lot of posters who cannot hope to go that far and my post was posted to point out that the clone can sound brilliant with just a couple of mods as per peters latest thread.

Last edited by j baldam; 14th November 2011 at 10:21 PM.
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Old 14th November 2011, 10:12 PM   #5104
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Sorry dyslexia it's 906 I think
Click the image to open in full size.

Where the Vcap is, I think this is one of Peters.

Last edited by j baldam; 14th November 2011 at 10:20 PM.
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Old 14th November 2011, 10:23 PM   #5105
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@j baldam - fair enough... are you using the built-in DAC by any chance? From the sound you are describing (sybilant, and somewhat treble-heavy) it seems like it's the onboard DAC.

Also, your original choice of cap for testing (Silmic) was rather unfortunate, as it is among the worst-sounding for this position... Do give it another try with a 47uF Starget or OsCon (I'd be happy to send you one).

Edit: you made a new post while I was writing mine... So let me get this straight, you replaced the C906 (0.1uF electrolytic) with a 0.22uF Obbligato, and C916 (220uf electrolytic) with a 470uF Nichicon? Well, no surprise at the immediate change from the C906... although I again went a lot lower, the optimum I found is 10nF or just below. More than 12nF and less than 8nF generally loses detail. The sound will heavily depend on the capacitor type too.
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Last edited by uncle_leon; 14th November 2011 at 10:31 PM.
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Old 14th November 2011, 10:34 PM   #5106
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Hi Leon, yes c906, sorry for the confusion, as in the pic above.
I'm using a chinese Dac
Finished 2496 (AK4396) CS8416 DAC With Transformer+case | eBay
Not run in yet.
I have often had trouble with K Meluas strange edge but at last it has gone.
My Marantz 63se has difficulty.
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Old 14th November 2011, 10:56 PM   #5107
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Hi Leon,
What are the strengths of the Starget and Oscon?
I've got a small and very odd selection in my parts box, hence the odd values, but I do like the obligato.
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Old 14th November 2011, 11:34 PM   #5108
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J, have a look at my "Big capacitor test".

I have tested more caps since, but none of them were worthwhile, so my observations above remain largely the same - except "no cap" at C916, which I now consider inferior to Starget.

You might also want to take a look at my other tests.

As regards C906, its peculiar nature spurred me to develop my own capacitor, which turned out to be superior to any commercial stuff I tried so far. Here is how the story began, but I later made a vastly superior design, (VNM Cap). I have also recently devised my own hand-made resistors - still in prototype stage, but they are significantly better than any of the resistor elite, including Caddocks and Vishays (and yes, I realise how bold a claim that is). Meanwhile, I'm also working on an even more intricate capacitor design, but dear god, it had better work as intended because it's going to cost me A LOT to make it...
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Old 14th November 2011, 11:50 PM   #5109
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Hi Leon, I'll take time out this morning to read the tests, the girlfriend is on nights
Just read with intrest your wooden cap mod.
Facinating, If Fred Flintstone had a hi fi Seriously though fantastic work.
Your VNM caps look very interesting too.
As you say, art, trying to imagine a whole pcb made up with these caps.
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Old 15th November 2011, 09:46 AM   #5110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle_leon View Post
J, have a look at my "Big capacitor test".

I have tested more caps since, but none of them were worthwhile, so my observations above remain largely the same - except "no cap" at C916, which I now consider inferior to Starget.

You might also want to take a look at my other tests.

As regards C906, its peculiar nature spurred me to develop my own capacitor, which turned out to be superior to any commercial stuff I tried so far. Here is how the story began, but I later made a vastly superior design, (VNM Cap). I have also recently devised my own hand-made resistors - still in prototype stage, but they are significantly better than any of the resistor elite, including Caddocks and Vishays (and yes, I realise how bold a claim that is). Meanwhile, I'm also working on an even more intricate capacitor design, but dear god, it had better work as intended because it's going to cost me A LOT to make it...
Not yet done with my shigaclone..but at c906 i have now a scr teflon tin cap supersound 0.047uf before i had a audio note 0.01uf cufoil, but the scr changed everything..now it reads all the details i Had with the AN but now with more dynamics and more soft treble and wider stage. One leg in Ground and other leg prolonged with silverwire to the chip. I have a oscon 47uf at the c916 and use nichicon FG and Elna Carafine in psu. Hardwired with silver to board. Output Resistors is 1w shinkoh. Will try changing c908 and some more later when the Teflon has settled, also try another at c916.
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