How to make a small, very effective, no coloration, phase inverter for signal?

Destroyer OS. · 7th March 2008, 03:05 AM

Well is there a way to do this? My Squeezebox 3 requires phase inversion of the speakers. However my CD, Vinyl, AUX, whatever, does not. As I understand only digital can do this... I am wondering if there is some way to do it without ruining the nice signal of my modded Squeezebox 3.

I have a pre-amp that is passive except it has a Hagtech Bugle and power supply in it for the vinyl, with a pot for that too. Volume is controlled via the Squeezebox 3 for itself.

Mooly · 7th March 2008, 07:10 AM

Hi, Sorry to have to ask but whats a "Squeezebox 3" ?
Try swapping the polarity of the speaker leads over first and listen if you can tell a difference. A single opamp will invert phase and can be configured to invert or not at the throw of a switch.
Regards Karl

waltona · 7th March 2008, 11:12 AM

I think that the INGUZ DRC plugin will sort this out.

http://inguzaudio.com/

Apart from DRC and an equalizer, it will reverse the phase automatically.

The slimdevices forum will have a lot more info than I can give you on this!

EDIT: Just checked with somebody who knows what he is on about and...

there is a DRC filter that Inguz prepared that inverts polarity.
You will have to get the filter from Inguz (not sure it is included in the download anymore) then select it from the settings.

Hope that helps.

wakibaki · 7th March 2008, 09:42 PM

It's an Ethernet audio sreamer.

What's wrong with swapping the wires? You could just have a crossover patch cable in the interconnect if there's a wire you don't want to cut.

w

Destroyer OS. · 8th March 2008, 04:02 AM

Swapping the wires every time I change sources sucks.

Thanks for the suggestions. I will try the Slimserver forums!

Archwn · 8th March 2008, 01:41 PM

Would you consider 2-way toggle switch? Wire it properly and it could fix the problem.

Steve Eddy · 8th March 2008, 04:11 PM

Polarity on recordings is all over the road. Some preserve absolute polarity, some do not. Others may have mixed polarities and all of this can occur in various combinations on different cuts off the same album.

So, unless you listen to every cut on every album to find out which polarity sounds best to you and make note of it so you can switch to that polarity when playing that cut, what's the point of worrying about your Squeezebox inverting polarity?

It's probably about as likely to be "correct" for a given cut than if it didn't invert polarity.

se

philpoole · 9th March 2008, 07:31 AM

I've bitten my tongue on this facet of audio for years.
Can you really tell any difference if a signal is inverted or not?
Really?

I would have thought there'd be so much more you could do to improve a system before you start to worry if the signal is inverted.

Even if you do preserve the correct 'phase' (or lack of inversion really), some speaker crossovers invert the signal to the tweeter anyway, to help the phase response in the crossover region - and of course the phase response itself completely changes through the crossover. Considering all that, whether the IMHO inaudible inversion is present or not would be the least of my worries.

But seriously, that's my opinion. What experiences have others had?

7th March 2008, 03:05 AM	#1
Destroyer OS. diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2005	How to make a small, very effective, no coloration, phase inverter for signal? Well is there a way to do this? My Squeezebox 3 requires phase inversion of the speakers. However my CD, Vinyl, AUX, whatever, does not. As I understand only digital can do this... I am wondering if there is some way to do it without ruining the nice signal of my modded Squeezebox 3. I have a pre-amp that is passive except it has a Hagtech Bugle and power supply in it for the vinyl, with a pot for that too. Volume is controlled via the Squeezebox 3 for itself.

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7th March 2008, 07:10 AM	#2
Mooly diyAudio Moderator Join Date: Sep 2007	Hi, Sorry to have to ask but whats a "Squeezebox 3" ? Try swapping the polarity of the speaker leads over first and listen if you can tell a difference. A single opamp will invert phase and can be configured to invert or not at the throw of a switch. Regards Karl

7th March 2008, 11:12 AM	#3
waltona diyAudio Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Up North	I think that the INGUZ DRC plugin will sort this out. http://inguzaudio.com/ Apart from DRC and an equalizer, it will reverse the phase automatically. The slimdevices forum will have a lot more info than I can give you on this! EDIT: Just checked with somebody who knows what he is on about and... there is a DRC filter that Inguz prepared that inverts polarity. You will have to get the filter from Inguz (not sure it is included in the download anymore) then select it from the settings. Hope that helps.

7th March 2008, 09:42 PM	#4
wakibaki Banned Join Date: Jan 2008 Blog Entries: 2	It's an Ethernet audio sreamer. What's wrong with swapping the wires? You could just have a crossover patch cable in the interconnect if there's a wire you don't want to cut. w

8th March 2008, 04:02 AM	#5
Destroyer OS. diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2005	Swapping the wires every time I change sources sucks. Thanks for the suggestions. I will try the Slimserver forums!

8th March 2008, 01:41 PM	#6
Archwn diyAudio Member Join Date: Oct 2006	Would you consider 2-way toggle switch? Wire it properly and it could fix the problem.

8th March 2008, 04:11 PM	#7
Steve Eddy diyAudio Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Sacramento, CA	Polarity on recordings is all over the road. Some preserve absolute polarity, some do not. Others may have mixed polarities and all of this can occur in various combinations on different cuts off the same album. So, unless you listen to every cut on every album to find out which polarity sounds best to you and make note of it so you can switch to that polarity when playing that cut, what's the point of worrying about your Squeezebox inverting polarity? It's probably about as likely to be "correct" for a given cut than if it didn't invert polarity. se

9th March 2008, 07:31 AM	#8
philpoole diyAudio Member Join Date: Oct 2004	I've bitten my tongue on this facet of audio for years. Can you really tell any difference if a signal is inverted or not? Really? I would have thought there'd be so much more you could do to improve a system before you start to worry if the signal is inverted. Even if you do preserve the correct 'phase' (or lack of inversion really), some speaker crossovers invert the signal to the tweeter anyway, to help the phase response in the crossover region - and of course the phase response itself completely changes through the crossover. Considering all that, whether the IMHO inaudible inversion is present or not would be the least of my worries. But seriously, that's my opinion. What experiences have others had?