CD723/753 tweaking! - Page 4

tschrama · 2nd March 2003, 12:05 AM

Hi Jean-Paul,

Your right about the TDA1545 statement.. it's a bit provocative

.. actually the TDA1545 sounded OK, better than my TDA1543 NOS... but compared to my Crystal DAC the TDA1545 sounds just OK, but it looks terrible on the scope, lot's of noise, 4x(?) ovresampling easely visible on the scope. I don't think a TDA1543 would be a upgrade, but maybe a parralel TDA1543 is?

gr,
Thijs

Asen · 2nd March 2003, 12:37 PM

I have no experience with 1543 but I have 1545 in my Philips CD721. I've listened to a lot of expensive CD players, but I'm not sure they perform better than my modified Philips. If they do the difference is like between CD players that belong to the same class.
What I found out is that the performance of the 1545 depends a lot on the PSU and the caps near it. I use a 10uF MKT one.
In case there is a 7805 chip in the CD723 (there probably is) you should replace it with 317 (the change is easy adding a small PCB). You will have more and tighter bass. An AC filter and schottky diodes in the PSU are a must. After that listen to your TDA1545 again. Maybe you’ll hear the difference, but that depends on the rest of your system too.

Regards

jean-paul · 2nd March 2003, 04:18 PM

Quote:

You're right about the TDA1545 statement.. it's a bit provocative .. actually the TDA1545 sounded OK, better than my TDA1543 NOS... but compared to my Crystal DAC the TDA1545 sounds just OK, but it looks terrible on the scope, lot's of noise, 4x(?) oversampling easily visible on the scope. I don't think a TDA1543 would be an upgrade, but maybe a parallel TDA1543 is?

Hi Thijs, did you measure this on the output or on the supply ? And did you check the ground routing in the specific machine ? Does it have stopper resistors in the datalines ? Can a better 5 V supply be a solution ?

I am not very familiar with the 721/723/753 Philips cd players as you can see. My experiences with the "newer" Philips or Marantz cdplayers while modifying them are not too positive from a mechanical point of view ( CD36/CD38/CD63/CD4000 etc. ). But what else can you expect for that price ? Especially the PCB material is weak and that's why I avoid them while I can. Sound is OK though. With some of the models even very OK.

Never done an A/B comparison between the two DAC's but the TDA1545A is able to convert 16 bit for sure. The TDA1543 is not fully 16 bit. IMO the TDA1545A isn't that bad. The technique used in this chip comes from the TDA1541A. Since I have a weak spot for this fantastic DAC chip it's next of kin is worth trying out.
Just for my own curiousity I am designing a PCB around TDA1545A.

Quote:

actually the TDA1545 sounded OK, better than my TDA1543 NOS.

Although dangerous to believe instantly I read a few times before that results with TDA1545A are better than with TDA1543. I am glad to read from you that your experiences are the same.

Paralleling DAC chips is not my cup of tea so I don't comment on that.

Regards,

Jean-Paul

Datasheet TDA1545A: http://www.semiconductors.philips.co...A1545A_T_3.pdf

Wombat · 2nd March 2003, 06:29 PM

About this resistor mod in the digital output:

I did remove the 2 parts as told and shortened the one resistor.

As i mentioned before i use my CD753 only as transport and this mod
definately makes the coaxial output sound worse, dirty sounding here!

I still don´t know what resistors these are and what they are doing.
The values are ~220 for the 3896 and ~160 for the 3897 in my circuit.

What brought a small benefit was removing the capacitor from the
coaxial plug to ground.

Elso Kwak · 2nd March 2003, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Asen
I have no experience with 1543 but I have 1545 in my Philips CD721. I've listened to a lot of expensive CD players, but I'm not sure they perform better than my modified Philips. If they do the difference is like between CD players that belong to the same class.
What I found out is that the performance of the 1545 depends a lot on the PSU and the caps near it. I use a 10uF MKT one.
In case there is a 7805 chip in the CD723 (there probably is) you should replace it with 317 (the change is easy adding a small PCB). You will have more and tighter bass. An AC filter and schottky diodes in the PSU are a must. After that listen to your TDA1545 again. Maybe you’ll hear the difference, but that depends on the rest of your system too.

Regards

Hi Asen,
I can second the AC filter. Voices improved considerably with the filter implemented.
I have not yet installed the Schottkeydiodes in the powersupply of my Philips CD-650 but in my old Sony they improved the sound a bit. My experience with the TDA1545A vs the TDA1543 in my KWAK-DAC is that the TDA1545A sounds more like the TDA1541AS1. The TDA1543 is more like the AD1865N-K but without the listener fatigue.
For the unawary please note:
TDA1543= Philips I2S format.
TDA1545A = Sony/BB format.
AD1865N-K = Sony/BB format.

Just my subjective impressions of course

tschrama · 2nd March 2003, 08:20 PM

Hmmmmmm

..I did remmember just slightly that there was something with the digital format back when I looked up the TDA1545.. can somebady help me with this sony/BB versus I2S format? Can a digital receiver like the CS814 be adjusted to these formats?

gr,
Thijs

PS thanks for the datasheet, from the datasheets it looks like a prommesing chip, does anybody know wether it is availeble somewhere?

Elso Kwak · 2nd March 2003, 08:28 PM

Hi Thijs,
For I2s you have to set the CS8414 in mode # 2
and for Sony/BB in mode # 5.
Sony/BB format is called LSBJ in the Crystal/Cirrus jargon.
See the datasheet page 21, table 3.
As the CS8414 is "pin compatible" with the CS8412, this is also valid for the CS8412. (But the CS8414 is only SMT)

OliverD · 2nd March 2003, 09:49 PM

@ Thijs:

Sorry for going completely off-topic, I've got some parts ready for shipment but no address. Tried to contact you via email, but didn't receive a reply until now.

- Sorry to everybody else -

tschrama · 2nd March 2003, 10:42 PM

Thanks Elso Kwak... I'll look it up further.. ..

@ AMT-freak
Hi, sorry about that.. I recently changed email adress.. now it's t_schrama@hotmail.com .. you can contact me via that... greetings,

Thijs

kasra · 2nd March 2003, 11:37 PM

Elso Kwak, intresting reading.

I have a sony x5000 with cxd-2515, and im on final stages of my NOS (tda1541a) dac. I have seen your digital interface that you recomended in the digital transformer thread.
Would you recomend me using it as an alternative to regular transformer? I have the schematics for the 2515.

Also, what setting would you recomend on the CS8412 (M0,M1,M2,M3) for use with that dac/transport?

regards - kasra

2nd March 2003, 06:29 PM	#34
Wombat diyAudio Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Germany	About this resistor mod in the digital output: I did remove the 2 parts as told and shortened the one resistor. As i mentioned before i use my CD753 only as transport and this mod definately makes the coaxial output sound worse, dirty sounding here! I still don´t know what resistors these are and what they are doing. The values are ~220 for the 3896 and ~160 for the 3897 in my circuit. What brought a small benefit was removing the capacitor from the coaxial plug to ground. __________________ If time permits - stuff some parsley in your ears and listen how it grows!

2nd March 2003, 08:28 PM	#37
Elso Kwak Banned Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Zamboanga, City of Flowers, Mindanao	Format settings for the CS8414 Hi Thijs, For I2s you have to set the CS8414 in mode # 2 and for Sony/BB in mode # 5. Sony/BB format is called LSBJ in the Crystal/Cirrus jargon. See the datasheet page 21, table 3. As the CS8414 is "pin compatible" with the CS8412, this is also valid for the CS8412. (But the CS8414 is only SMT)

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2nd March 2003, 12:05 AM	#31
tschrama diyAudio Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: The Netherlands	Hi Jean-Paul, Your right about the TDA1545 statement.. it's a bit provocative .. actually the TDA1545 sounded OK, better than my TDA1543 NOS... but compared to my Crystal DAC the TDA1545 sounds just OK, but it looks terrible on the scope, lot's of noise, 4x(?) ovresampling easely visible on the scope. I don't think a TDA1543 would be a upgrade, but maybe a parralel TDA1543 is? gr, Thijs

2nd March 2003, 12:37 PM	#32
Asen diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Sofia	I have no experience with 1543 but I have 1545 in my Philips CD721. I've listened to a lot of expensive CD players, but I'm not sure they perform better than my modified Philips. If they do the difference is like between CD players that belong to the same class. What I found out is that the performance of the 1545 depends a lot on the PSU and the caps near it. I use a 10uF MKT one. In case there is a 7805 chip in the CD723 (there probably is) you should replace it with 317 (the change is easy adding a small PCB). You will have more and tighter bass. An AC filter and schottky diodes in the PSU are a must. After that listen to your TDA1545 again. Maybe you’ll hear the difference, but that depends on the rest of your system too. Regards

2nd March 2003, 08:20 PM	#36
tschrama diyAudio Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: The Netherlands	Hmmmmmm ..I did remmember just slightly that there was something with the digital format back when I looked up the TDA1545.. can somebady help me with this sony/BB versus I2S format? Can a digital receiver like the CS814 be adjusted to these formats? gr, Thijs PS thanks for the datasheet, from the datasheets it looks like a prommesing chip, does anybody know wether it is availeble somewhere?

2nd March 2003, 09:49 PM	#38
OliverD diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Germany	@ Thijs: Sorry for going completely off-topic, I've got some parts ready for shipment but no address. Tried to contact you via email, but didn't receive a reply until now. - Sorry to everybody else -

2nd March 2003, 10:42 PM	#39
tschrama diyAudio Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: The Netherlands	Thanks Elso Kwak... I'll look it up further.. .. @ AMT-freak Hi, sorry about that.. I recently changed email adress.. now it's t_schrama@hotmail.com .. you can contact me via that... greetings, Thijs

2nd March 2003, 11:37 PM	#40
kasra diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Sweden	Elso Kwak, intresting reading. I have a sony x5000 with cxd-2515, and im on final stages of my NOS (tda1541a) dac. I have seen your digital interface that you recomended in the digital transformer thread. Would you recomend me using it as an alternative to regular transformer? I have the schematics for the 2515. Also, what setting would you recomend on the CS8412 (M0,M1,M2,M3) for use with that dac/transport? regards - kasra