fiber vs analogue

[shallenn]

i wasnt really shure where to ask this question. i have a yamaha htr-5150 a/v receiver,, a toshiba sd-4800 dvd/cd player,, and a pioneer m-90 pwer amp. one source (toshiba) and two amps
(the yamaha and the pioneer). i have fiber between the yamaha and the toshiba, and patch cord between the toshiba and the pioneer. im using one set of towers and just using banana plugs to switch between amolifiers. using the yamaha via fiber the sound is great, very dynamic with a wide sound stage. but when i listen to the same music through the pioneer pwer amp via patch cord it also sounds great BUT, it is not as wide of a sound stage and the dynamics are lacking, i notice the bass lacking more than the highs but that might just be me. either way dynamics are suffering. both the fiber and the patch cord are acoustic research available at best buy. also,the yamaha is rated at about 70 wpc
20-20hz and the pioneer is rated at 200 wpc 20-20hz. i figured that the pioneer m-90 being a copper clad hi-fi beast would sound better. im hoping that i can blame the reduced dynamics and sound stage can be blamed on the patch cords!! any comments???
shallenn

[Evaas]

you're comparing two different recievers and two different DACs and you want to pin the difference on the cables? there may be more going on there.. see this post for more comments:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...981#post130981

[Tieftoener]

First off, I agree with Evaas in that there are too many variables.

There are different audio interface receivers in each unit (Pioneer and Yamaha). There are different preamps in each unit. There are different output amps in each unit. You also inject the quality of the DACs in the Toshiba by passing the analog to the Pioneer. Also, the Pioneer probably converts the analog input to a digital signal to go through a processor (which in stereo obviously doesn't do much processing) which then goes back through the DACs in the Pioneer. Where as you eliminate a complete conversion chain by going fiberoptic to the Yamaha.

Try comparing each receiver using the fiber. Then compare each using the analog from the Toshiba. Does your Pioneer or Yamaha have a direct analog pass through switch (bypassing the A/D -> D/A process inside the receiver)??? If so, try that as well.

From my past experiences, it doesn't surprise me that the Yamaha would sound better. If the Yamaha has a "direct" passthrough, then I would recommend trying the analog from the Toshiba into the Yamaha. This may be slightly better than the fiber into the Yamaha. Just my $0.02.

Happy Listening

[shallenn]

the yamaha is an dolby digital/dts av reciever. the pioneer is nothing more than an integrated amp with anolog inputs only. i was thinking that the pioneer m-90 being the same thing as the elite m-91 would be a better mode of amplification. this assumption being made from build quality, original retail price, and the elite lines reputation. i am not useing a preamp with the pioneer, just the "cd direct" input and adjusting volume with the pioneers volume knob. is my sound degraded in any way by not having a preamp? more input is definetly needed!! thanks ,,shallenn

[Schaef]

The sound is being degraded by running through the op-amps and pre-amp of the player itself.

In your case what you're comparing is the DAC converter of the Yamaha and its amps to the DAC converter of the Toshiba and the Pioneer amp. If you want a closer comparison, you need to run the patch cords to the Yamaha as well. Then you'll be closer to apples to apples.

More than likely the sound degradation you're hearing is from the Toshiba player itself. It would be an even better comparison if you could bypass the digital circuits on the Yamaha (in the AD -> DA conversion inside the receiver) and THEN you'll have a fair comparison.

[shallenn]

makes sense shaef. i will run patch cords to the yamaha and make comparisons and let you know.
shallenn