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Delta 1010 Clock Mod
Delta 1010 Clock Mod
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Old 6th February 2008, 10:59 PM   #51
mtl777 is offline mtl777  United States
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I understand now. Thanks for the heads up and for clearing my misconceptions about how capacitors work!
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Old 8th February 2008, 07:40 AM   #52
mtl777 is offline mtl777  United States
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Sorry, I have one more cautious question that I want to be sure about. If I try to measure the DC voltage across that MVH cap, isn't there a danger that doing so might cause the cap to not perform its filtering function, and because of this, some component down the line might get damaged? If so, would it be safer to check the voltage across the resistor instead, and whatever voltage that would be, to make the assumption that the capacitor will not be subjected to a voltage higher than that?
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Old 8th February 2008, 01:54 PM   #53
kevinkr is offline kevinkr  United States
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NO, just measure the voltage across the cap. Your meter is a high impedance device and takes just the tiniest amount of current from the nodes it's measuring, this is perfectly safe to do using the technique you previously described. Modern digital meters have high input impedance and don't draw significant current from the device they are measuring - there are some instances in very high impedance circuits where this can cause measurement errors, but no damage will occur.

ESD is a much bigger issue, I assume you are using a grounded wrist strap when you are working on this card, and have no pile of loose papers or styrofoam plastic cups nearby. (Both generate large amounts of tribo-electricity when disturbed and this can zap static sensitive devices.)

Obviously the other big issue is shorts..

Just be careful, you're doing fine so far.
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Old 8th February 2008, 04:52 PM   #54
mtl777 is offline mtl777  United States
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I'm glad it's safe to do. Thanks very much for this great info! Your help is so very appreciated.
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Old 12th February 2008, 06:53 AM   #55
mtl777 is offline mtl777  United States
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I have measured the voltage across the MVH cap. It is 8.8V DC! I researched the pinout of the PCI card. It is getting 12V supply from pin A2. The voltage must have reduced after going through the resistor. All along I thought PCI cards use only 3.3V or 5V supply. What the 3.3V or 5V actually meant was the "signaling level" (though I don't really know what that means ).

I'm glad I did this test to be sure about the voltage! Thanks, Kevin, for guiding me on this! Now the next question: Is a 10V cap sufficient for replacing that large MVH cap?
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Old 12th February 2008, 06:36 PM   #56
kevinkr is offline kevinkr  United States
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No, you need to use a 16V cap for this application. I assume there are additional regulators on the card to provide the application circuit voltages.
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Old 13th February 2008, 07:20 AM   #57
mtl777 is offline mtl777  United States
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Thanks, that's what I thought too. 10V seems too close for comfort to the measured 8.8V operating voltage. I will go for Nichicon HN 2200uF 16V which is even lower impedance and higher ripple current rating than Rubycon ZLG. And yet the HN is smaller than the ZLG for the same 16V rated voltage.

The HN datasheet doesn't show ESL specs, though. I'm hoping it is also low ESL and will work great for this application. Are low impedance caps usually low ESL or not necessarily?
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Old 16th February 2008, 07:30 AM   #58
mtl777 is offline mtl777  United States
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Let's go back to the PSU now. I have decided on the following capacitors to replace the stock M-Audio ones:

For "Booster" caps C14 and C17 - United Chemi-Con KZE 560uF 63V (0.024 Ohm impedance at 20 deg.C, 2500 mA ripple current, 0.01CV leakage current).

For pre-regulator caps C18 and C12 - NIC Components NRSY 2200uF 50V (0.045 Ohm impedance at 20 deg.C, 1750 mA ripple current, 0.01CV leakage current. Not too good impedance and ripple, but physical size was the limitation for this choice due to the cramped space.)

For pre-regulator caps C60 and C22 - United Chemi-Con KZH 2200uF 25V (0.013 Ohm impedance at 20 deg.C, 3450 mA ripple current, 0.01CV leakage current).

For post-regulator caps C61, C23, C19, C13 - Either (a) Rubycon ZL 560uF 35V (0.022 Ohm impedance at 20 deg.C, 2150 mA ripple current, 0.01CV leakage current); or (b) Rubycon ZLH 560uF 35V (0.020 Ohm impedance, 1960 mA ripple current, 0.01CV leakage current).

Two things:

First, I'd like to know if you see anything wrong with any of these choices before I buy them. Like, if the impedance or ESR is too low (which I read could be an issue with LDO regulators, but I'm not using LDO anyway), or if the leakage current is too high, and things like that. What do you think?

Second, I'm torn between Rubycon ZL and ZLH for the post-regulator caps. The impedance of these two is practically the same, but the ZL has higher ripple current rating (190 mA more) than the ZLH. However, the ZLH has longer life of 6000 ~ 10000 hours at 105 deg.C compared to only 1000 ~ 5000 hours for the ZL. So the ZL is better in ripple current, but is 190 mA difference a lot and do I really need that higher ripple current rating, considering that this is already after the regulator so the ripple is probably pretty much "tamed" at this stage? Is longer life more important than ripple current rating in this case because of the caps being close to the heat-dissipating regulators? Please help me decide between ZL and ZLH -- which of these two do you think is the better choice here?

Thanks!
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Old 16th February 2008, 03:29 PM   #59
kevinkr is offline kevinkr  United States
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You won't need the higher ripple rating post regulators so that becomes a non issue, just choose the more economical choice I guess.
Otherwise the choices look reasonable enough..
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Old 16th February 2008, 04:57 PM   #60
mtl777 is offline mtl777  United States
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Thank you so much, Kevin! With the higher ripple rating being a non-issue for post-regulator, I'll get the longer-life ZLH then.

So my booster and pre-regulator cap choices are fine? I'm just being careful of any gotchas or what-not, as the PSU is a delicate part and a mistake here could be disastrous. My traumatic experience with that noise problem which happened after I first messed with the PSU has taught me to be really careful.
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