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Old 15th December 2007, 05:18 PM   #11
cuibono is offline cuibono  United States
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On a more constructive note, why don't you try this:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...928#post199928
Rotel RCD-02 Kwak-Clock upgrade

It is a well documented mod, and has a good chance of bringing improvements, with limited risk of losing your 1010 (you only have to remove a few parts). The only thing is you have to piece the instructions together from several threads - just search around this forum and diyhifi.org

The "shotgun" approach sounds like a sure-fire way to kill your 1010.
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Old 16th December 2007, 04:50 AM   #12
mtl777 is offline mtl777  United States
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Thanks very much for referring the Kwak clock! It looks pretty good. It will be great for a future project. For now, though, I just want to fix two damaged output channels in my 1010's breakout box. One of them is making some static noise by itself without anything playing. The other has a low output level, like 7 dBFS lower than normal.

Since the SMD components are so hard to desolder and remove, I've realized that the shotgun approach is not practical. I will have to buy a LCR meter and measure the cap values and replace only the ones that deviate too much from the values listed earlier by Gerd. And so, too, with the SMD resistors. The SMD resistors are easier to deal with since they are marked.

BTW, what good brand/series of SMD tantalum caps (approx. 5mm x 3mm size) would you recommend?

Thanks again!
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Old 16th December 2007, 05:41 PM   #13
mtl777 is offline mtl777  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by SmellOfPoo
Sorry, I forgot: All the caps are tantalum. The glue is for fixing them before soldering.

Are the caps polarized or non-polar? By their looks, I'm guessing they're non-polar but I want to be sure. Thanks!
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Old 16th December 2007, 08:02 PM   #14
kevinkr is offline kevinkr  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by mtl777



Are the caps polarized or non-polar? By their looks, I'm guessing they're non-polar but I want to be sure. Thanks!
I've never seen a non polar tantalum, doesn't mean they don't exist, but I suspect it is unlikely. Unlike conventional electrolytics tantalums are usually marked at the the positive end with a black band (yellow body), white band (black body), +++ or a dot, (very) rarely the negative end is marked instead. Check polarity in circuit with a meter if you are not sure.

Can't go wrong with kemet.

Note that tantalums aren't the best cap to use in the signal path due to linearity concerns. (See some of the old Walter Jung & Richard Marsh articles on passive components for a thorough discussion of the whys.)
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Old 16th December 2007, 11:10 PM   #15
mtl777 is offline mtl777  United States
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The SMD caps look the same on both ends, no markings that I can see. Here's the PSU section somewhere in the D/A board of my 1010 where you can see them (for example, C56 and C57):

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 16th December 2007, 11:46 PM   #16
cuibono is offline cuibono  United States
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what makes you think the caps are the source of your trouble? It seems like there could be a lot of possibilities...
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Old 17th December 2007, 01:23 AM   #17
mtl777 is offline mtl777  United States
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Well, there are 8 analog output channels. Only two of them have a problem. The other six are perfectly fine. In the two channels that have a problem, I have already replaced all the large caps. The only components that have not yet been replaced are the DAC chips, opamps, and SMD caps and resistors. I hope the DAC's are OK, and I think they are, because the channels are still playing music from wav and mp3. I imagine that if the DAC's are gone, the channels wouldn't play at all. That leaves the opamps, SMD caps and resistors. It could be any of these, but basically what I'm trying to do for now is to research the SMD caps because they are the only ones I could not identify -- they are unmarked! I'm not really saying that they are the ones that are defective. All I'm trying to do is gather all the info and help I need to diagnose the problem.

So my strategy is to test the SMD cap values in the defective channels and replace the ones that are deviating too much from what the values are supposed to be. Then I'll do the same with the resistors. If, after all these, the problem persists then I'll replace the opamps.
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Old 17th December 2007, 01:45 AM   #18
cuibono is offline cuibono  United States
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the problem started when you changed out the larger caps, didn't it?

so doesn't it seem likely that the problem has something to do with the caps you changed, and not the untouched smd caps?

I would check all those caps very carfully. You could have dry solder joint, reversed one, or possibly torn a track or via up (which would be hard to spot).

You said you had scope, right? They are pretty easy to use, and will give you tons of good, real information. Hook up your probe to channel one, set the time/div to 1ms (2ms will make it easy to see 60Hz hum, .1ms will let you see lots of high frequency hash), make sure you can see your trace on the scope, connect the aligator clip to ground on the card, and start probing. Vary your volts/div from 5mV to 1V - for the noise on your output, try 5mV/div first. Try and spot the noise on the output first. Then compare it to a clean channel - with nothing playing on the cpu, make sure the clean channel has nothing on it (less than 1mV), while the problematic channel clearly has something (probably above a few mV). Take pictures and post them here. Trace up the problematic channel (in the analog section, around the opamps) seeing if the noise comes from all the way up to the dac output pin (look up the pinout on the datasheet, available on the manufactures website). You'll need the datasheets of the output opamps too.

It is really likely the noise is caused by something you've done.

Troubleshooting is fun!

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Old 17th December 2007, 02:13 AM   #19
mtl777 is offline mtl777  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by cuibono
the problem started when you changed out the larger caps, didn't it?

No, it started after I changed the 1N4001 diodes in the PSU to MBR1100 Schottky's. Here's the thread depicting the history of my troubles ...

Replacing Voltage Regulators

At first, for a few days, my unit worked fine after the diode replacements. But one day a channel started having noise, then days later another channel started having the same problem. Initially I thought it was because of the diode replacements that I did. But later, I remembered that during the time when the problems started, my mouse would act funky and malfunction. I traced this to a bad breakout cable (connecting the 1010's breakout box to the PCI card) because my mouse worked fine again after I replaced the breakout cable. So I now strongly suspect that the bad breakout cable was the original source of my troubles.
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Old 17th December 2007, 02:56 AM   #20
kevinkr is offline kevinkr  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by kevinkr


I've never seen a non polar tantalum, doesn't mean they don't exist, but I suspect it is unlikely. Unlike conventional electrolytics tantalums are usually marked at the the positive end with a black band (yellow body), white band (black body), +++ or a dot, (very) rarely the negative end is marked instead. Check polarity in circuit with a meter if you are not sure.

Can't go wrong with kemet.

Note that tantalums aren't the best cap to use in the signal path due to linearity concerns. (See some of the old Walter Jung & Richard Marsh articles on passive components for a thorough discussion of the whys.)
The reason those caps have no polarity markings is that they are ceramic, and unless overvoltaged aren't likely to be the cause of the problems you are currently having.
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