for pride in ownership
Dear Mr Spielbergo,
If you still want a classic/vintage player for not too much money IMHO you cannot beat some of the early Philips based models . (Philips CD104, Grundig DC7550, marantz CD-34, CD-44, B&O CDX) These are all based on the same internal boards (the TDA1540 chipset). Now I hear you cry in shock "How can I go that far back , they were all 14-bit ?"
this is true, but I re inherited the player I bought second hand in 1885, then upgraded and gave to my father in 1988. He died in 1992, my Mum then used it till she got an all-in-one DVD player, and I got it back in 2005 (20 years of faithful use )
I was going to sell it on ebay and put it on to check the sound. I was amazed, and to cut a long story short, sold the two box I was using and kept the CD104.
The positives with these players are :
1) Surprisingly good sound , especially in the bass
2) Build Quality. Single metal casting for the whole chassis CDM1 transport. My 104 weighs 7.5kg/ 16.5 lb un-modded. No plastic beyond the buttons.
3) Seems to play just about anything including CDR burned at high speed
4) Mod potential. There are some well documented mods in this forum. These range from typical Cap & Opamps changes, through valve outputs and even NOS. There is even one person who claims has fitted TDA1541 i.e gone 16-bit.
5) Wide range of units. The players listed above are all basically the same. Even the classic B&O top loader is in fact a CD104 in a different shape. You can chose the style that suits. The Grundig CD7550 seems to have quite following , perhaps because the shielding of the boards is better implemented , however these players seem to be rare outside of mainland europe.
6) I think these players will hold their value, since they are from the dawn of CD.
The negatives are :
1) Problems with dry joints. These players and other Philips devices from this period used small rivet joints to form grounds from top to bottom surfaces of the boards. These are called griplets and they fail, causing all sorts of problems, but mostly an inability to read the CD TOC except when warmed up. Replacing the griplets is a well documented procedure, and once done the players usually work fine. Full schematics are in circulation. Of course this may mean you can pick up a player cheap (broken) and get it back to working reasonably cheaply.
2) The sound is different. I like it, but it's different. I find the top end a bit harder, but that maybe down to the analogue stages and tweakable. Perhaps sound stage is not as great ? Opinions vary, but I gave up a pretty good 2 box transport & dac, and it wasn't just for nostalgia.
3) Features are minimal and track access time is glacial.
4) No remote
So... just my tupence worth, but if you see one cheap , it could be a fast route to owning a piece of audiophile history.
Dear Mr Spielbergo,
If you still want a classic/vintage player for not too much money IMHO you cannot beat some of the early Philips based models . (Philips CD104, Grundig DC7550, marantz CD-34, CD-44, B&O CDX) These are all based on the same internal boards (the TDA1540 chipset). Now I hear you cry in shock "How can I go that far back , they were all 14-bit ?"
this is true, but I re inherited the player I bought second hand in 1885, then upgraded and gave to my father in 1988. He died in 1992, my Mum then used it till she got an all-in-one DVD player, and I got it back in 2005 (20 years of faithful use )
I was going to sell it on ebay and put it on to check the sound. I was amazed, and to cut a long story short, sold the two box I was using and kept the CD104.
The positives with these players are :
1) Surprisingly good sound , especially in the bass
2) Build Quality. Single metal casting for the whole chassis CDM1 transport. My 104 weighs 7.5kg/ 16.5 lb un-modded. No plastic beyond the buttons.
3) Seems to play just about anything including CDR burned at high speed
4) Mod potential. There are some well documented mods in this forum. These range from typical Cap & Opamps changes, through valve outputs and even NOS. There is even one person who claims has fitted TDA1541 i.e gone 16-bit.
5) Wide range of units. The players listed above are all basically the same. Even the classic B&O top loader is in fact a CD104 in a different shape. You can chose the style that suits. The Grundig CD7550 seems to have quite following , perhaps because the shielding of the boards is better implemented , however these players seem to be rare outside of mainland europe.
6) I think these players will hold their value, since they are from the dawn of CD.
The negatives are :
1) Problems with dry joints. These players and other Philips devices from this period used small rivet joints to form grounds from top to bottom surfaces of the boards. These are called griplets and they fail, causing all sorts of problems, but mostly an inability to read the CD TOC except when warmed up. Replacing the griplets is a well documented procedure, and once done the players usually work fine. Full schematics are in circulation. Of course this may mean you can pick up a player cheap (broken) and get it back to working reasonably cheaply.
2) The sound is different. I like it, but it's different. I find the top end a bit harder, but that maybe down to the analogue stages and tweakable. Perhaps sound stage is not as great ? Opinions vary, but I gave up a pretty good 2 box transport & dac, and it wasn't just for nostalgia.
3) Features are minimal and track access time is glacial.
4) No remote
So... just my tupence worth, but if you see one cheap , it could be a fast route to owning a piece of audiophile history.
Hey S.Spielbergo,
There is a Rotel RCD 865BX on eBay with no bids that ends in about 24 hours with a starting bid price at $50. It is located in New Jersey. Shipping can't be bad or maybe even a drive to pick it up!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ROTEL-RCD-865BX...oryZ3272QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Can't beat it!
Regards//Keith
There is a Rotel RCD 865BX on eBay with no bids that ends in about 24 hours with a starting bid price at $50. It is located in New Jersey. Shipping can't be bad or maybe even a drive to pick it up!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ROTEL-RCD-865BX...oryZ3272QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Can't beat it!
Regards//Keith
Any member lived in U.K. can help?
Hi members (who live in U.K.),
Can anyone lives in U.K. help me to bid this Ebay item(110154191892) i.e. Rotel cd player 965BX LE.
Seller don't deal with overseas bidders.
I can be contacted at this address:
wckong1950@netvigator.com
Payment can be made in advance via Paypal.
Regards.
Kong
Hi members (who live in U.K.),
Can anyone lives in U.K. help me to bid this Ebay item(110154191892) i.e. Rotel cd player 965BX LE.
Seller don't deal with overseas bidders.
I can be contacted at this address:
wckong1950@netvigator.com
Payment can be made in advance via Paypal.
Regards.
Kong
I just missed the RCD 865bx the other night, logged on durring the last few minutes then my laptop batteries died, oh well. I happened to see an ADC 16/2r locally for faily cheap and grabbed it, though I realize its not in the same league as the Rotel it should still be worth cracking open and looking inside, BTW anybody here have any experience with the ADC players?
Hi all,
It's interesting to read what's been said about Rotels with add-on discrete output stages.
I cracked open an 865 that I bought as a backup on Ebay, and it has no op-amps (spaces where they should be) and a riser board (looks factory fitted) with various nice parts onboard.
The model is RCD-865 (no AX, BX or LE markings, front or rear). It sounds very smooth (not hi-fi by modern standards, but nice on the ears).
A friend is having a good look at it and may take some good photos shortly to learn more.
Simon
It's interesting to read what's been said about Rotels with add-on discrete output stages.
I cracked open an 865 that I bought as a backup on Ebay, and it has no op-amps (spaces where they should be) and a riser board (looks factory fitted) with various nice parts onboard.
The model is RCD-865 (no AX, BX or LE markings, front or rear). It sounds very smooth (not hi-fi by modern standards, but nice on the ears).
A friend is having a good look at it and may take some good photos shortly to learn more.
Simon
rotel 965bx
the riser boards are probably descrete opamp stages from an aftermarket manufacturer.
i own a original 965bx and have modded a lot through the years.
some things worked and other things didn't.
my advise regarding the opamps is simple.
forget al the ic changes. i went descrete some time ago with descrete opamps from burson audio in australie. i'll never change back to ic's.
experiments (proper calculations were made) with the 4 couplingcaps gave interesting changes. after this it became verry clear why the rotel guys made their changes when going from mk1 to mk2 (check your pcb)
i fitted a netaudio clockback in 2006 and have never had a day of regret, money well spend.
the final setup can bee seen in the picture. if anyone is interested i will post the list with all the changes made.
a friend of mine has an original 965 descrete model. i have verry good pics from the inside where you can see how the original opams stage is bypassed.
voltage regulation is also different.
the riser boards are probably descrete opamp stages from an aftermarket manufacturer.
i own a original 965bx and have modded a lot through the years.
some things worked and other things didn't.
my advise regarding the opamps is simple.
forget al the ic changes. i went descrete some time ago with descrete opamps from burson audio in australie. i'll never change back to ic's.
experiments (proper calculations were made) with the 4 couplingcaps gave interesting changes. after this it became verry clear why the rotel guys made their changes when going from mk1 to mk2 (check your pcb)
i fitted a netaudio clockback in 2006 and have never had a day of regret, money well spend.
the final setup can bee seen in the picture. if anyone is interested i will post the list with all the changes made.
a friend of mine has an original 965 descrete model. i have verry good pics from the inside where you can see how the original opams stage is bypassed.
voltage regulation is also different.
After missing a handfull of Rotels on ebay I finally found a neglected Proton AC-620 "..has bad display", well yes the display was bad but so was the servo section (fried resistor among other things ) and it did not function. Long story short, everything is fixed now (all new caps, Pany FM/FC and OSCONS), some new resistors and I replaced the ouput stage with LME**** opamps and Dayton Poly 18uf 250v caps. The tda1541 got new 200 pf Vishay MKT caps and the headphone section was tossed. I think the TDA's really could have benefited from their own regulated source's of power but I never got around to building a little supply for them. After all that work I'm happy to say the thing operates well and sounds very good, its not saying much but it sounds much smoother and more transparent than my OPPO DV 981HD or AMC CD8b. I'm still trying to figure out what Philips board is used inside but so far no luck, I did find that it is nearly identical to a Dual player from the early 90's. Anyhow I am still having just a little trouble with the CDM4 transport, with the CD clamp down it quietly "ticks" and "chirps" from time to time, with it up there are no problems,?!
"ticking" sound
The ball bearing in the rotating part may need some grease - if you disassemble it, the little ball is easily lost - have done this myself! Or perhaps, it's off line and needs to be relocated in it's retainer. If nothing works, get another clamp from another player - old dead Marantz, Phillips, Magnavox, etc
Rotels use 2 springs (1 each side) but others often only 1 - either works okay - while you have the clamp off, add some dampening "goo" to underside between plastic ribs - gives better base - simple, eh!
The oversampling chip (7220) can be "gone around" to make player NOS - sounds much better - that chip sucks power, is quite dirty on the p/supply lines and degrades the sound - look it up, plenty info, 3 cut tracks and 3 wire links (maybe 5, actually).
Another easy mod is to replace the 7 caps on each side of the 1541A chip with very good PP ones - can stand them vertically, plenty of room, 6 of them are 0.1uF and the last one can be 1uf - look up the EC Design site and see how he does it on the pcbs.
This player will probably take directly to the Pass D1 o/p stage that is currently going thru a bit of a revival - see "Steenoe" for info as he's adding the Toole power supplies to his - I'm a bit lazy and just use "Teddy-regs" for the supplies to replace the 3 pin regs.
Suggest have a look at the axial cap underneath the pcb at the front under the mech, and while your there, add a cap across the drive motor pins, on the pcb.
It's quite easy to make these players into rather good ones, with a sound that you don't find today outside of the expensive audiophile range.
You can get similar results with the players that used the PCM63 chip, run 16 Meg and Sony mechs - or build your own - some kits around.
The ball bearing in the rotating part may need some grease - if you disassemble it, the little ball is easily lost - have done this myself! Or perhaps, it's off line and needs to be relocated in it's retainer. If nothing works, get another clamp from another player - old dead Marantz, Phillips, Magnavox, etc
Rotels use 2 springs (1 each side) but others often only 1 - either works okay - while you have the clamp off, add some dampening "goo" to underside between plastic ribs - gives better base - simple, eh!
The oversampling chip (7220) can be "gone around" to make player NOS - sounds much better - that chip sucks power, is quite dirty on the p/supply lines and degrades the sound - look it up, plenty info, 3 cut tracks and 3 wire links (maybe 5, actually).
Another easy mod is to replace the 7 caps on each side of the 1541A chip with very good PP ones - can stand them vertically, plenty of room, 6 of them are 0.1uF and the last one can be 1uf - look up the EC Design site and see how he does it on the pcbs.
This player will probably take directly to the Pass D1 o/p stage that is currently going thru a bit of a revival - see "Steenoe" for info as he's adding the Toole power supplies to his - I'm a bit lazy and just use "Teddy-regs" for the supplies to replace the 3 pin regs.
Suggest have a look at the axial cap underneath the pcb at the front under the mech, and while your there, add a cap across the drive motor pins, on the pcb.
It's quite easy to make these players into rather good ones, with a sound that you don't find today outside of the expensive audiophile range.
You can get similar results with the players that used the PCM63 chip, run 16 Meg and Sony mechs - or build your own - some kits around.
S.Spielbergo, I have a Proton, not sure which model, but using TDA1541 and everything works except the display.
I bought it for parts but can you tell me about your display problem and how you fixed it?
It is not accessible at the moment but I remember the display did not light up at all.
thanks, sp
I bought it for parts but can you tell me about your display problem and how you fixed it?
It is not accessible at the moment but I remember the display did not light up at all.
thanks, sp
If its a 6** series piece of equipment then the display should be similar to mine. There is a large LCD panel with a dish on the backside, underneath is a conentional automotive style mini bulb which just pops out. If its not the bulb there is a small pc board on top of the display that has some caps, resistors and a large driver IC, one of my driver leads had a lousy connection so I resoldered the connection and it has been working great ever since. BTW getting to the display requires removing the metal and plastic face plate which is held on by about a dozen tiny screws. Good luck!
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