Hi all. I did a search and nothing difinitive came up so here's what I'd like to know opinions of..
Is there a really good all around player that plays both cd and dvd and holds 5 disc's, like a carousel etc.. Or does the better sound come from a seperate DAC? Seeking advice for under $1000 dollar players especially ones that are tube output or tube modded. All opinions greatly appreciated .. Dave🙂
Is there a really good all around player that plays both cd and dvd and holds 5 disc's, like a carousel etc.. Or does the better sound come from a seperate DAC? Seeking advice for under $1000 dollar players especially ones that are tube output or tube modded. All opinions greatly appreciated .. Dave🙂
Probably the best DAC on the market is the Lavry DA-10. Simply amazing!
The DAC is less than $1000usd and works with your existing inexpensive DVD player with TOS or SPDIF output. My personal experience has lead me to us a computer as a source or inexpensive CD/DVD players with an awesome external DAC.
THe Lavery DA-10 supports 24/96 so you can take advantage of DVD-Audio for 24/96 sources.
It's worth consideration, since the DA-10 will blow away any DAC set-up built into CD/DVD players under $2500. In fact this DAC is competitive with on-board DACs in players that cost twice that much.
It certainly provides a great deal more flexibility going forward. I'm using the DA-10 with a Marantz CD-63SE, a DVD video/Audio player, and the Slimdevices SqueezeBox for my digital archive.
An external DAC provides a lot of flexibility.
Just a thought,
-David
-David
The DAC is less than $1000usd and works with your existing inexpensive DVD player with TOS or SPDIF output. My personal experience has lead me to us a computer as a source or inexpensive CD/DVD players with an awesome external DAC.
THe Lavery DA-10 supports 24/96 so you can take advantage of DVD-Audio for 24/96 sources.
It's worth consideration, since the DA-10 will blow away any DAC set-up built into CD/DVD players under $2500. In fact this DAC is competitive with on-board DACs in players that cost twice that much.
It certainly provides a great deal more flexibility going forward. I'm using the DA-10 with a Marantz CD-63SE, a DVD video/Audio player, and the Slimdevices SqueezeBox for my digital archive.
An external DAC provides a lot of flexibility.
Just a thought,
-David
-David
best player maybe, carousel not
I sure like my Oppo DVD /SACD player ( http://oppodigital.com/dv981hd/dv981hd_index.html ). Plays all of 'em = DVD-A, DVD-Video, CD, SACD, NTSC zone 1, PAL zone 2, upconverts to HD/1080p, etc. ... it will even play 24bit / 192k through the built-in DAC to 6 port Dolby 5.1. At US$230 you could almost buy 5 of 'em if you need to play 5 discs at a time 😉
dw8083 / Lavery DA-10 : "... An external DAC provides a lot of flexibility. ... the DA-10 will blow away any DAC set-up built into CD/DVD players ..."
Yes, probably so and probably better than the above Oppo, except it won't handle the 24 bit/192k stuff like this: http://www.classicrecords.com/item.cfm?item=HDAD 2008 ... or the 24bit / 394k stuff like this: http://www.digitalaudio.dk/ax24.htm ... That being said, I would like to have a DA-10 myself except I already have something I like a little better: http://industrialcomponent.com/firewirestuff/audiofire2.html = jitter is almost not measurable and latency with FireWire (rather than USB or SPDIF) through any Mac or PC is a non-issue.
" ... experience has lead me to us a computer as a source or inexpensive CD/DVD players with an awesome external DAC. ..." Me too = I'm near SF as well, if you want to see one or hear one of the Echo Digital gadgets connected to a Mac & SqueezeBox 3 or direct to analog.
I sure like my Oppo DVD /SACD player ( http://oppodigital.com/dv981hd/dv981hd_index.html ). Plays all of 'em = DVD-A, DVD-Video, CD, SACD, NTSC zone 1, PAL zone 2, upconverts to HD/1080p, etc. ... it will even play 24bit / 192k through the built-in DAC to 6 port Dolby 5.1. At US$230 you could almost buy 5 of 'em if you need to play 5 discs at a time 😉
dw8083 / Lavery DA-10 : "... An external DAC provides a lot of flexibility. ... the DA-10 will blow away any DAC set-up built into CD/DVD players ..."
Yes, probably so and probably better than the above Oppo, except it won't handle the 24 bit/192k stuff like this: http://www.classicrecords.com/item.cfm?item=HDAD 2008 ... or the 24bit / 394k stuff like this: http://www.digitalaudio.dk/ax24.htm ... That being said, I would like to have a DA-10 myself except I already have something I like a little better: http://industrialcomponent.com/firewirestuff/audiofire2.html = jitter is almost not measurable and latency with FireWire (rather than USB or SPDIF) through any Mac or PC is a non-issue.
" ... experience has lead me to us a computer as a source or inexpensive CD/DVD players with an awesome external DAC. ..." Me too = I'm near SF as well, if you want to see one or hear one of the Echo Digital gadgets connected to a Mac & SqueezeBox 3 or direct to analog.
sq225917 said:
There certainly a lot of discusion about the Lavry DA-10, but issues with them from a design point I have not seen. Dan Lavry makes much of the extreme highend ADC's for mastering. Sony for example uses his equipment a their standard. Lavry took some of his extreme jitter reducing technology and his experience with laying out PC boards (Probably one of the most critical design considerations) and applied it to a lower cost unit.
It's really a pretty cool DAC. I've mated mine with the TOS output of a SqueezeBox 3 and it works very well for DVD-A 24/96 recordings. Lavry recommends a Roland EDIROL UA-1EX that costs about $80usd if a customer wants USB input. I've used the Edirol from Roland and it works really well.
A great DAC like this is worth considering rather than investing in a decent DVD-A player. The DA-10 is definately moons better than most builtin DVD DACs. I've heard the Oppo and it's a nice unit, but it does not hold a candle to great outboard DAC. At the Head-Fi fest in San Jose recently I listened to a "spare no expense" modded Oppo that cost $2500usd. It was bright and congested compared to a good outboard DAC. The Lavry for under $1K is a great bargin.
Spending $180 bucks on an Oppo and a great Dac will give you MUCH better sound and flexibility than just getting an expensive or moderately priced DVD-A player.
Just my $.02 worth,
-David
Thanks for the info.... I did a search on the Lavry and it would seem some prefer the Benchmark dac to the Lavry.. any comment between the two?...
I already have a 5 disc Yamaha cd player that sounds not bad but would like to upgrade at some point. Maybe I could add a dac to that? Dave🙂
I already have a 5 disc Yamaha cd player that sounds not bad but would like to upgrade at some point. Maybe I could add a dac to that? Dave🙂
" ... I've mated mine with the TOS output of a SqueezeBox 3 and it works very well for DVD-A 24/96 recordings ..."
I stand corrected as I was not aware that the DA-10 would pass gas at the full 24bit/96k = 😎
I also was not aware that the SqueezeBox 3 had a decent SPDIF output ... believing incorrectly that it was a 16 bit channel. I have one and have only used the built-in DAC so far = I'll drag one of the Echo AudioFire DACs to it and give it a listen ...
" ... Lavry recommends a Roland EDIROL UA-1EX [for USB input] ..."
IMOP, except for analog playback only, USB just doesn't make it = jitter is unacceptable, the bandwidth is limited to 96K and because of the latency, USB connected ADCs/DACs are unaccepatble in the studio. The Edirol folks do a very nice job of making FireWire connected DACs too, which the semi-pros and pros insist upon. Again, IMOP, I can not understand spending any bucks or resources on devices that are not totally bi-directional, record and playback, input and output, in as close to "real time" as possible ... which eliminates all of the USB scenarios completely.
Mercenary announcement: http://usbstuff.com since 1996, pre IEEE announcement and pre-iMac ... http://firewirestuff.com since 1997 ... my company sites.
I stand corrected as I was not aware that the DA-10 would pass gas at the full 24bit/96k = 😎
I also was not aware that the SqueezeBox 3 had a decent SPDIF output ... believing incorrectly that it was a 16 bit channel. I have one and have only used the built-in DAC so far = I'll drag one of the Echo AudioFire DACs to it and give it a listen ...
" ... Lavry recommends a Roland EDIROL UA-1EX [for USB input] ..."
IMOP, except for analog playback only, USB just doesn't make it = jitter is unacceptable, the bandwidth is limited to 96K and because of the latency, USB connected ADCs/DACs are unaccepatble in the studio. The Edirol folks do a very nice job of making FireWire connected DACs too, which the semi-pros and pros insist upon. Again, IMOP, I can not understand spending any bucks or resources on devices that are not totally bi-directional, record and playback, input and output, in as close to "real time" as possible ... which eliminates all of the USB scenarios completely.
Mercenary announcement: http://usbstuff.com since 1996, pre IEEE announcement and pre-iMac ... http://firewirestuff.com since 1997 ... my company sites.
DaveCan said:
I auditioned a number of highend DAC's, including the Benchmark. I thought the Benchmark DAC-1 was was cooler sounding and more sterile. This turns out to be a fairly common opinion regarding the Benchmark. The Lavry was warmer but did not color the sound. I also liked the Slimdevices Transporter and preferrred it to the Benchmark DAC-1. The Transporter is a great DAC, but felt the soundstage of the Lavry was slightly less congested an slightly more detailed without sounding bright.
Besides the Lavry and the SqueezeBox 3 was less than $1300 whereas the Transporter was over $2000 plus tax since I live in California.
The headphone amp on the Lavry is excellent. I'm not a major headphone guy, so my opinion is limited to the headphone amps I've listened to recently. It sounded just as good as the more decicated headphone amps I auditioned at the Head-fi show here in San Jose last month. I used a pair of HD650's and a Grado 325i when evaluating at the show.
I've met some really great people on this site and the Head-fi.org site with pretty awesome equipment. In fact I've have a few listening session get togethers at my home to compare equipment. VERY informative and an awesome opportunity to really listen to other gear that i could not otherwise aford to evaluate.
If you ever have $8500 bucks to spare, checkout the Lavry Gold. Lavry makes his own custom disrete R2R DAC. Amazing. It was great to see him put his know how on jitter reduction and board layout to a lower cost product.
Yes you could connect the Yamaha CD player to the Lavry. At set-up like this would also provide the flexibility to experiment with a "harddrive as a transport" using a PC as well. Using FooBar200 with the Roland USB-TOS adaptor works up to 24/96. The Roland device is only $80. Don't let the cost fool you. It works extremely well and is bit perfect with Foobar2000.
-David
dw8083 said:
Actually, despite loud marketing claims, this fabled jitter reducing technology is not used in DA-10, as discovered by JohnW. The whole section of the PCB supposedely doing jitter reduction is stuffed with components, but is not functional and is disabled. Read the whole sad tale here.
Well thats good to know about the Lavry thanks for that good info....
The Benchmark Dac1 is looking like a great choice the more I read about it and comes in at $975.00 Dave🙂
The Benchmark Dac1 is looking like a great choice the more I read about it and comes in at $975.00 Dave🙂
Concerning the Jitter reduction comments on the the DA-10.
There are a coupl eof individuals who are goating Dan Lavry into disclosing how he achieved crystal lock throuh a DSP and memory buffering. Throwing down a few cheap parts to confuse "copy cats" like the China folks who are spear heading these charges, speak for themselves.
It's a great trade secret to achieve what Lavry has done at a lower cost level to achieve the same end.
I'd suggest anyone to buy a Lavry DA-10, Benchmark Dac 1, Slimdevices Transporter, Stello 220 mkII and anything else and just audition the stuff at home. I believe all of these DAC's are available with a 30 day return policy and can be returned before the Visa/Mastercard bill is due.
Trust your ears, and not what some other DIYer is claiming as to technical merit, or playing some gotcha game.
At the end of the day it's what sounds best for our own systems.
I listened extensively to the above DAC's and the Lavry DA-10 was clearly a better DAC with my Pass Labs gear.
Just get the gear and eval it yourself, and let your ears decide.
-David
There are a coupl eof individuals who are goating Dan Lavry into disclosing how he achieved crystal lock throuh a DSP and memory buffering. Throwing down a few cheap parts to confuse "copy cats" like the China folks who are spear heading these charges, speak for themselves.
It's a great trade secret to achieve what Lavry has done at a lower cost level to achieve the same end.
I'd suggest anyone to buy a Lavry DA-10, Benchmark Dac 1, Slimdevices Transporter, Stello 220 mkII and anything else and just audition the stuff at home. I believe all of these DAC's are available with a 30 day return policy and can be returned before the Visa/Mastercard bill is due.
Trust your ears, and not what some other DIYer is claiming as to technical merit, or playing some gotcha game.
At the end of the day it's what sounds best for our own systems.
I listened extensively to the above DAC's and the Lavry DA-10 was clearly a better DAC with my Pass Labs gear.
Just get the gear and eval it yourself, and let your ears decide.
-David
dw8083 said:
Sigh... It's only a secret if you don't know anything about DSP.
As far as who is getting thrown, it would appear to be DA-10 customers, such as yourself. It seems you are under impression that your DA-10 contains some superior jitter reduction technology, when in reality it just uses AD1896 asynchronous rate converter, just like everybody else. Marketing sure is great, eh?
With this, I agree.
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