Hey Dublin,
I was hoping all the most experienced guys would share their experiences on this exact subject. Sure there are threads all over the place about clocks. Most have a comment or two here or there from the guys who have done many but not a elaborate as we are asking you guys to post now (except for maybe Guido and Elso of course). Some of the clock mods are done or talked about by guys like us who will probably only do it once every lifetime or so. Many clock upgrade threads also talk about a particular CD Player. It really would be nice to keep these experiences more about the clocks and why it is their favorite based on their experiences (of many different installs) and keep the CDPs generic unless there is some exceptional reason.
So come on all you Pros,
share this experience with those of us who need to see the bigger picture or that one detail usually not talked about, that might just sway us one way or another! We want to make the best decision once! We don't want to challenge your opinions (not me anyway) I just want to pick the best one for my situation (and probably everybody else too). I appreciate your experience. It's like a MasterCard commercial, "Priceless"!
This can be the thread just about the mid priced clocks! Thanks from Dublin and me and all the other DIYers who this will help!
Regards//Keith
I was hoping all the most experienced guys would share their experiences on this exact subject. Sure there are threads all over the place about clocks. Most have a comment or two here or there from the guys who have done many but not a elaborate as we are asking you guys to post now (except for maybe Guido and Elso of course). Some of the clock mods are done or talked about by guys like us who will probably only do it once every lifetime or so. Many clock upgrade threads also talk about a particular CD Player. It really would be nice to keep these experiences more about the clocks and why it is their favorite based on their experiences (of many different installs) and keep the CDPs generic unless there is some exceptional reason.
So come on all you Pros,
share this experience with those of us who need to see the bigger picture or that one detail usually not talked about, that might just sway us one way or another! We want to make the best decision once! We don't want to challenge your opinions (not me anyway) I just want to pick the best one for my situation (and probably everybody else too). I appreciate your experience. It's like a MasterCard commercial, "Priceless"!This can be the thread just about the mid priced clocks! Thanks from Dublin and me and all the other DIYers who this will help!
Regards//Keith
this is my favorite clock kit as it reminds me of the beaudacious Annette Funicello:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
First, there has to be a bigger picture... every year my eyes are getting worse (started right after 40). Or I won't see it coming!
Second, Jack I thought about using that one too but it's certainly not a mid-priced clock (it's probably worth a fortune on eBay) and I have no clue on where to mount it in my CD Player.
Also, have you seen Annette lately?
I'm thinkin more like Christina Aguillar (Yummy)
Second, Jack I thought about using that one too but it's certainly not a mid-priced clock (it's probably worth a fortune on eBay) and I have no clue on where to mount it in my CD Player.
Also, have you seen Annette lately?
I'm thinkin more like Christina Aguillar (Yummy)
Thank you KP11520.
You stated my thoughts much more elegantly. As you say, I am sure that this subject will be a useful reference to us amateur diyers, if the "experts" chip in.
In order to start things off, I am looking at:
The Hagclock, as it seems very good value, and includes a voltage regulator. http://www.hagtech.com/hagclock.html
TentLabs, as the X0-3 seems advantageous for transport only duty. http://www.tentlabs.com/Products/cdupgrade/xo2xo3/index.html
Trichord Research. http://www.trichordresearch.com/cdupgrades.html
Audiocom International. The Sperclock3 seems quite expensive, but there are still some Superclock2 avaialble. http://www.audiocom-uk.com/control/news/anmviewer.asp?a=105&z=15
Kwak-Clock-7. This seems well thought of, but is for the more adventurous. I am happy to stuff a board with supplied components, but building from scratch is more than I wish to take on at the moment. I believe that Elso used to supply PCBs and components. Does anyone know whether this is still available, and if so, where?
There are some more out there???
What are peoples experiences with these, in terms of jitter levels, and ultimately sound quality?
Thanks in advance.
You stated my thoughts much more elegantly. As you say, I am sure that this subject will be a useful reference to us amateur diyers, if the "experts" chip in.
In order to start things off, I am looking at:
The Hagclock, as it seems very good value, and includes a voltage regulator. http://www.hagtech.com/hagclock.html
TentLabs, as the X0-3 seems advantageous for transport only duty. http://www.tentlabs.com/Products/cdupgrade/xo2xo3/index.html
Trichord Research. http://www.trichordresearch.com/cdupgrades.html
Audiocom International. The Sperclock3 seems quite expensive, but there are still some Superclock2 avaialble. http://www.audiocom-uk.com/control/news/anmviewer.asp?a=105&z=15
Kwak-Clock-7. This seems well thought of, but is for the more adventurous. I am happy to stuff a board with supplied components, but building from scratch is more than I wish to take on at the moment. I believe that Elso used to supply PCBs and components. Does anyone know whether this is still available, and if so, where?
There are some more out there???
What are peoples experiences with these, in terms of jitter levels, and ultimately sound quality?
Thanks in advance.
Phil
To quote from Tentlabs website:
"XO3 is intended to be used when external DACs are connected. XO3 is equal to XO2, but contains an additional reclocking circuit for the digital output (SPDIF). This circuit reduces the jitter at that output. The incoming jitter at the DAC will be lower, resulting in better sound."
So, you are correct.
To quote from Tentlabs website:
"XO3 is intended to be used when external DACs are connected. XO3 is equal to XO2, but contains an additional reclocking circuit for the digital output (SPDIF). This circuit reduces the jitter at that output. The incoming jitter at the DAC will be lower, resulting in better sound."
So, you are correct.
dublin78 said:
I understand KC 7 is a source for inspiration for the diyer but I personally would not go through it again.
Depending on your skills :
it needs to be shielded ,
it can be quite big,
form what someone say it does not measure very well .
My experience with that stuff wasnt very good .
Also , Kwak is not in this forum anymore , and from my experiences I found out that he used to carry rather high prices for his components.
Passing to a Tent Xo was a revelation anyway.
I mean as an stand alone oscillator for me it is the best choice .
After that I recognize that CD players ( if we want to talk about that ) have such a number of problems and design flaws that is hard to explain what are the actual possibilities of a good - low jitter oscillator .
Now that's what we're talking about! Pro experiences based on actual research and multiple installs of different clocks, complete with their opinions, personal sentiments and results.
Thanks Stefano!
This could be an excellent "Reference Thread", like the Marantz CDP threads. We just need the Pros to come forward and help! Please elaborate and not throw out a "one liner". You have no clue how much so many of us would appreciate this!
Regards//Keith
Thanks Stefano!
This could be an excellent "Reference Thread", like the Marantz CDP threads. We just need the Pros to come forward and help! Please elaborate and not throw out a "one liner". You have no clue how much so many of us would appreciate this!
Regards//Keith
Hi Stefano,
WRT to the KC7, my mileage has differed.
I'm not sure it has to be shielded any more than any other clock.
I've always intended to shield mine, but it happilly worked so I saw no urgent need to do so.
I do agree it is fairly large, but does have two discrete regulators. I made one of mine smaller by making it run off of a single power rail, and with a monolithic regulator. It still worked well.
I can't comment on what someone else said about its measurements.
I don't think it has to be too expensive either. The basic comparator is about £3, and there's nothing you can do about that, but its entirely up to the implementor how much you want to spend on regulation and passive components (and you'll probably already have the crystal from a CDP).
It can successfully be made on veroboard, if you're careful.
HOWEVER: Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying the KC7 is any better than any other clock (I have no experience of other clocks).
I keep wanting to try new clocks, but keep getting distracted by what to me is tried and tested, and cheap.
What experiences have others had with other clocks (perhaps in comparison to KC7)? How expensive were they? Were they easy to do?
Also, which other clocks are DIY? I recall some schematics from LCAudio, has anybody built any of these?
Cheers,
Phil
WRT to the KC7, my mileage has differed.
I'm not sure it has to be shielded any more than any other clock.
I've always intended to shield mine, but it happilly worked so I saw no urgent need to do so.
I do agree it is fairly large, but does have two discrete regulators. I made one of mine smaller by making it run off of a single power rail, and with a monolithic regulator. It still worked well.
I can't comment on what someone else said about its measurements.
I don't think it has to be too expensive either. The basic comparator is about £3, and there's nothing you can do about that, but its entirely up to the implementor how much you want to spend on regulation and passive components (and you'll probably already have the crystal from a CDP).
It can successfully be made on veroboard, if you're careful.
HOWEVER: Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying the KC7 is any better than any other clock (I have no experience of other clocks).
I keep wanting to try new clocks, but keep getting distracted by what to me is tried and tested, and cheap.
What experiences have others had with other clocks (perhaps in comparison to KC7)? How expensive were they? Were they easy to do?
Also, which other clocks are DIY? I recall some schematics from LCAudio, has anybody built any of these?
Cheers,
Phil
Come on all you Pros and Experienced DIYers
Shame this thread seems to be dying on the vine. I think it can be quite useful to a lot of the population on this site for years to come!
How else can we make a good decision ourselves? The majority of us will NEVER get enough experience changing clocks to know.
Regards//Keith
Shame this thread seems to be dying on the vine. I think it can be quite useful to a lot of the population on this site for years to come!
How else can we make a good decision ourselves? The majority of us will NEVER get enough experience changing clocks to know.
Regards//Keith
Hi
Most OEM clocks are basic and just about work.
Most aftermarket clocks will give some degree of improvement.
How much improvements depends on many factors including how it is installed and any other mods carried out.
Everyone will have their favourite so possibly that is why there is little response.
It is easy to build a clock so give it a go.
Andy
Most OEM clocks are basic and just about work.
Most aftermarket clocks will give some degree of improvement.
How much improvements depends on many factors including how it is installed and any other mods carried out.
Everyone will have their favourite so possibly that is why there is little response.
It is easy to build a clock so give it a go.
Andy
Flea board with Tentlabs XO module:
http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?t=21594&highlight=flea
http://www.tentlabs.com/Components/XO/index.html
http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?t=21594&highlight=flea
http://www.tentlabs.com/Components/XO/index.html
Beeing an old radio-technician from the time when receivers had to be manually trimmed, I know from experience how microphonic an oscillator can be, especially the crystal. My first and only clock upgrade so far is a simple Pierce gate-based oscillator, identical to the one already in the player and with the same crystal. It has its own regulator and its own ground conductor, but most importantly it is cast in silicone rubber in a shielded grounded box, mounted right next to the DAC. I think the difference it made was well worth the effort, and I still use it.
Why pay a lot of money for ultra-low jitter specs when it gets drowned in microphonics and EMI ?
Get the basics right, and a small/cheap effort can yield a big improvement.
Why pay a lot of money for ultra-low jitter specs when it gets drowned in microphonics and EMI ?
Get the basics right, and a small/cheap effort can yield a big improvement.
Hi Bou,
The picture is from a Rotel RCD-955AX. Some capacitors have also been changed, and there is additional vibration damping. The output OPs are now OP275.
The sound went from pleasant but flat, muddy and booring, to still pleasant but clearer and far more lively. I made all modifications at once in one weekend, so I can't say how much of the improvement is due to the clock.
If I was to make this modification today, I would probably go for a Tent clock module. The final clock can be made very compact with good electrical and acoustical screening, and sit right where it should. The price is also OK.
If you cast the finished and very well tested clock in silicone (ordinary acid-free silicone from the local store), you can forget all about servicability and warranty. It becomes a throw-away unit should it fail.
Big boards and long leads can be very difficult to implement in the real world. The final result can be far from the lab measurements. It would be nice to have some measurements from one of the more expensive clocks when mounted in a real CD player with humming transformers, a buzzing transport, radiating microprocessors and music in the air !
Best regards,
Thor
The picture is from a Rotel RCD-955AX. Some capacitors have also been changed, and there is additional vibration damping. The output OPs are now OP275.
The sound went from pleasant but flat, muddy and booring, to still pleasant but clearer and far more lively. I made all modifications at once in one weekend, so I can't say how much of the improvement is due to the clock.
If I was to make this modification today, I would probably go for a Tent clock module. The final clock can be made very compact with good electrical and acoustical screening, and sit right where it should. The price is also OK.
If you cast the finished and very well tested clock in silicone (ordinary acid-free silicone from the local store), you can forget all about servicability and warranty. It becomes a throw-away unit should it fail.
Big boards and long leads can be very difficult to implement in the real world. The final result can be far from the lab measurements. It would be nice to have some measurements from one of the more expensive clocks when mounted in a real CD player with humming transformers, a buzzing transport, radiating microprocessors and music in the air !
Best regards,
Thor
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