Hi,
Some of you may remember I started doing a refurbishing of a Creative Extigy card. I stopped this effort due to the design flaws of that product
Now, Via has released the Envy24HT which has full 24 bit 192KHz pipeline without the need to resample everything that you do.
Cards such as the M-Audio Revolution 7.1 and Terratec Aureon offer this technology at attractive prices, particularly the M-Audio at less than $100.
I am interested in finding out what chips are used on these boards, particularly the DAC chips. If anybody has one of these cards, I would be most grateful for a high res photo, or if someone could read off the DAC markings. I am also interested in a datasheet for the Envy24HT chip itself which has eluded me so far.
The ultimate goal is using the PC as a digital crossover with excellent DAC's dedicated to each driver.
Petter
Some of you may remember I started doing a refurbishing of a Creative Extigy card. I stopped this effort due to the design flaws of that product
Now, Via has released the Envy24HT which has full 24 bit 192KHz pipeline without the need to resample everything that you do.
Cards such as the M-Audio Revolution 7.1 and Terratec Aureon offer this technology at attractive prices, particularly the M-Audio at less than $100.
I am interested in finding out what chips are used on these boards, particularly the DAC chips. If anybody has one of these cards, I would be most grateful for a high res photo, or if someone could read off the DAC markings. I am also interested in a datasheet for the Envy24HT chip itself which has eluded me so far.
The ultimate goal is using the PC as a digital crossover with excellent DAC's dedicated to each driver.
Petter
Hi Petter,
U have a nice idea using a PC as a dedicated Xover
Well, as for sound cards I'd definitely go for M-Audio,
I am quite familiar with Terratec since I've been working
in PC hardware sector for some time and I must say that,
Terratec, despite being much much better in the terms of
QoS still doesn't cut the mustard.
M audio is much better and so is Egosys.
Well, as U may remember I am about to build a cd player
using a plextor cd rom. Well, the idea is still alive, am I waiting
for some chips (OPAs, BUFs, AS1853 etc) and I also considered
using a 'small' (486 with scsi contr) Pc to act as a digital filter.
I initally thought that this was a crazy idea but now I see
that it may be quite clever, in fact
Ps. as for Envy I'll look for it, maybe I can help
Greetz
Adam
U have a nice idea using a PC as a dedicated Xover
Well, as for sound cards I'd definitely go for M-Audio,
I am quite familiar with Terratec since I've been working
in PC hardware sector for some time and I must say that,
Terratec, despite being much much better in the terms of
QoS still doesn't cut the mustard.
M audio is much better and so is Egosys.
Well, as U may remember I am about to build a cd player
using a plextor cd rom. Well, the idea is still alive, am I waiting
for some chips (OPAs, BUFs, AS1853 etc) and I also considered
using a 'small' (486 with scsi contr) Pc to act as a digital filter.
I initally thought that this was a crazy idea but now I see
that it may be quite clever, in fact
Ps. as for Envy I'll look for it, maybe I can help
Greetz
Adam
The 'PC as digital crossover' idea comes up fairly frequently, and it is indeed a viable idea, but not without it's headaches.
I'm doing this with an M-Audio 1010, and am so far happy with the results (aside from the lack of hardware volume control). Although the Revolution specs look relatively good, they haven't yet been independently measured as far as I know. In general, I'd recommend looking at pro/semi-pro cards for this; the LynxTwo is the current king of the hill (6 analog outs, $900), but the Delta 1010 is very close. A Delta 410 is a step down, but is very inexpensive and would be my entry-level choice over the Revolution.
All these (except the Lynx) are limited to 24/96. The Lynx will to 24/192.
One thing to keep in mind is that you will _probably_ want to use ASIO for this to keep latency down. Many consumer cards don't supply ASIO drivers (I think the Revolution does, but go to avsforum to see the flame-fest over this card - some very disappointed people due to some driver issues, although the base audio quality seems to be OK)
Adam, you'll want something bigger than a 486 for this. The main reason to use a PC is to be able to use FIR filter topologies, which burn tons of CPU. A 486 *might* be able to do simple IIR parametric eq etc, but what's the point in that? - just get a Behringer (Ultracurve eq for $200 or the just-announced 3-way digital xover for $450) and be done with it - WAY easier, sound quality should be comparable and it's cheaper to boot.
I'm doing this with an M-Audio 1010, and am so far happy with the results (aside from the lack of hardware volume control). Although the Revolution specs look relatively good, they haven't yet been independently measured as far as I know. In general, I'd recommend looking at pro/semi-pro cards for this; the LynxTwo is the current king of the hill (6 analog outs, $900), but the Delta 1010 is very close. A Delta 410 is a step down, but is very inexpensive and would be my entry-level choice over the Revolution.
All these (except the Lynx) are limited to 24/96. The Lynx will to 24/192.
One thing to keep in mind is that you will _probably_ want to use ASIO for this to keep latency down. Many consumer cards don't supply ASIO drivers (I think the Revolution does, but go to avsforum to see the flame-fest over this card - some very disappointed people due to some driver issues, although the base audio quality seems to be OK)
Adam, you'll want something bigger than a 486 for this. The main reason to use a PC is to be able to use FIR filter topologies, which burn tons of CPU. A 486 *might* be able to do simple IIR parametric eq etc, but what's the point in that? - just get a Behringer (Ultracurve eq for $200 or the just-announced 3-way digital xover for $450) and be done with it - WAY easier, sound quality should be comparable and it's cheaper to boot.
Hi
Take a look at Samplitude version 7 Professional at
http://www.samplitude.com/
A demo version is available which togheter with the Room simulator" let you do Digital X-over. If you know how to make the Impulse responses of the desired filters.
Lots of interesting upsampling tools/options as well.
give it a look.
On the soundcard issue i would stick to cards based on Envy 24 chip such as M-audio and Terratec due to Linux support.
The cards that you are refering to are all targeted towards gaming/surround applications are most likely not with top of the line DAC´s. for 24bit/96K cards you have the M-audio cards and slightly below them the terratec cards.
For a Digital X-over you would must likely want to stick to the filters running at 44,1 KHz and then do upsampling afterwards and 24bit/96 KHz is more than enough.
I have a Terratec 24/96 LT fire which is very good value for monye and i am satisfied with the card.
Maybee you want to look at http://audio.rightmark.org/news.html in the forums for your specific request for DAC type
Take a look at Samplitude version 7 Professional at
http://www.samplitude.com/
A demo version is available which togheter with the Room simulator" let you do Digital X-over. If you know how to make the Impulse responses of the desired filters.
Lots of interesting upsampling tools/options as well.
give it a look.
On the soundcard issue i would stick to cards based on Envy 24 chip such as M-audio and Terratec due to Linux support.
The cards that you are refering to are all targeted towards gaming/surround applications are most likely not with top of the line DAC´s. for 24bit/96K cards you have the M-audio cards and slightly below them the terratec cards.
For a Digital X-over you would must likely want to stick to the filters running at 44,1 KHz and then do upsampling afterwards and 24bit/96 KHz is more than enough.
I have a Terratec 24/96 LT fire which is very good value for monye and i am satisfied with the card.
Maybee you want to look at http://audio.rightmark.org/news.html in the forums for your specific request for DAC type
Re: Which Behringer unit is that?
DCX2496. Just announced at NAMM, so probably isn't available in stores yet.
short description - 3-input, 6-output unit - outputs are analog only, but one of the inputs can be AES/EBU. Individually controllable delay and parametric eq on each input, individually controllable parametriceq, xover settings, level control on each output. Inputs are mixable for mono sub use. All filters look to be IIR; processing is via a Sharc. Includes a PC application for designing your setups, but can also be controlled directly from the unit.
Unless the converters completely suck (unlikely given the success the Ultracurve has seen) it looks great. List of $439 in the US I think.
Petter said:
DCX2496. Just announced at NAMM, so probably isn't available in stores yet.
short description - 3-input, 6-output unit - outputs are analog only, but one of the inputs can be AES/EBU. Individually controllable delay and parametric eq on each input, individually controllable parametriceq, xover settings, level control on each output. Inputs are mixable for mono sub use. All filters look to be IIR; processing is via a Sharc. Includes a PC application for designing your setups, but can also be controlled directly from the unit.
Unless the converters completely suck (unlikely given the success the Ultracurve has seen) it looks great. List of $439 in the US I think.
I am interested in finding out what chips are used on these boards, particularly the DAC chips. If anybody has one of these cards, I would be most grateful for a high res photo, or if someone could read off the DAC markings. I am also interested in a datasheet for the Envy24HT chip itself which has eluded me so far.
The ultimate goal is using the PC as a digital crossover with excellent DAC's dedicated to each driver.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
My Terratec EWX2496 uses AK4524. CS8427 and a Philips A to D; not the best. Howeve, meaured performance is excellent. As much of a problem are the cheap opamps, the 4580. I bought the Audigy 2 to try because of the CS chip. However, the opamps are 4558 and the performance is way below 24/192 standard, worse than 16 bit in fact. M audio uses 5532 which I don't like.
The other problem is the DVDROMs running at 16X, some 10 000 rev/min. They are just too noisy to use for hirez music. I have been trying to buy a good 8-10X unit with no success ard may have to settle for a combo DVD CD -RW at 12X DVD.
The PC will never be a good real time music centre, if only because of noise. I have gotten mine down to 43 dBA, 50dBC but its still too intrusive.
The ultimate goal is using the PC as a digital crossover with excellent DAC's dedicated to each driver.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
My Terratec EWX2496 uses AK4524. CS8427 and a Philips A to D; not the best. Howeve, meaured performance is excellent. As much of a problem are the cheap opamps, the 4580. I bought the Audigy 2 to try because of the CS chip. However, the opamps are 4558 and the performance is way below 24/192 standard, worse than 16 bit in fact. M audio uses 5532 which I don't like.
The other problem is the DVDROMs running at 16X, some 10 000 rev/min. They are just too noisy to use for hirez music. I have been trying to buy a good 8-10X unit with no success ard may have to settle for a combo DVD CD -RW at 12X DVD.
The PC will never be a good real time music centre, if only because of noise. I have gotten mine down to 43 dBA, 50dBC but its still too intrusive.
The DACs used in the Revolution are listed near the bottom of the page on the following site. There is a disclaimer that the product is still under development and changes still may be made.
http://www.m-audio.co.jp/products/Revolution/Revolution.html
http://www.m-audio.co.jp/products/Revolution/Revolution.html
Re: Re: Envy 24HT (Revolution 7.1, Aureon etc)
There is a german program (not freeware, but only a little crippled) called "CD-Bremse", with which you can effectively control the rotations peed of most CD / DVD drives out there.
I use it on my standalone player project, and you can't hear the DVD while it is operating (I have set the speed to 4*).
And the use of a processor which does not require a lot of heating (P3 1000), together with a big heatsink and 8 cm fan rotating at 1100 rpm has reduced the noise to an absolute minimum (I also modded the fan in the supply to run slower than normal). Of course you can hear my player when idle, but with anything playing even at low volumes, the noise is not hearable.
Ciao,
Arndt
fmak said:
There is a german program (not freeware, but only a little crippled) called "CD-Bremse", with which you can effectively control the rotations peed of most CD / DVD drives out there.
I use it on my standalone player project, and you can't hear the DVD while it is operating (I have set the speed to 4*).
And the use of a processor which does not require a lot of heating (P3 1000), together with a big heatsink and 8 cm fan rotating at 1100 rpm has reduced the noise to an absolute minimum (I also modded the fan in the supply to run slower than normal). Of course you can hear my player when idle, but with anything playing even at low volumes, the noise is not hearable.
Ciao,
Arndt
Re: Re: Re: Re: Envy 24HT (Revolution 7.1, Aureon etc)
There is a german program (not freeware, but only a little crippled) called "CD-Bremse", with which you can effectively control the rotations peed of most CD / DVD drives out there.
I use it on my standalone player project, and you can't hear the DVD while it is operating (I have set the speed to 4*).
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Can you pl give me the download url of CD-Bremse [/B][/QUOTE]
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I found it in google; wonderful program; should be syndard on players. Unfortunately I can only do 9x on my Pioneer; much better than 16x though.
There is a german program (not freeware, but only a little crippled) called "CD-Bremse", with which you can effectively control the rotations peed of most CD / DVD drives out there.
I use it on my standalone player project, and you can't hear the DVD while it is operating (I have set the speed to 4*).
-----------------------------------------------------
Can you pl give me the download url of CD-Bremse [/B][/QUOTE]
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I found it in google; wonderful program; should be syndard on players. Unfortunately I can only do 9x on my Pioneer; much better than 16x though.
In the old days (12 months ago, probably still available), Plextor drives had something called "Plextor Manager" which could lock their drives to low speed.
We use it at work for a CD duplicator rig I set up with Plextor SCSI drives. In certain cases, I have been able to read badly damaged CD's at low locked speeds.
Petter
We use it at work for a CD duplicator rig I set up with Plextor SCSI drives. In certain cases, I have been able to read badly damaged CD's at low locked speeds.
Petter
I used the M-audio delta1010, delat410 and revolution7.1 some weeks ago at work.
I can't tell anything about the sound quality, as this wasn't the goal, and the test system was far from optimal. But, unless I did something wrong (but I don't think I did, since I used the same installation protocol for all the cards), the recolution uses much less cpu!
At least with the ALSA drivers (yes, that's for linux), the 410 and 1010 used something like 6% of a 2.4ghz P4, and the revolution less than 1% on the same machine. This, only to play a sound (with aplay)
I can't tell anything about the sound quality, as this wasn't the goal, and the test system was far from optimal. But, unless I did something wrong (but I don't think I did, since I used the same installation protocol for all the cards), the recolution uses much less cpu!
At least with the ALSA drivers (yes, that's for linux), the 410 and 1010 used something like 6% of a 2.4ghz P4, and the revolution less than 1% on the same machine. This, only to play a sound (with aplay)
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