There's the very cheap Behringer UCA202 USB DAC, only 1648, but has optical out and headphone socket ...
http://www.zzounds.com/item--BEHUCA202
w
~ $30 US
http://www.zzounds.com/item--BEHUCA202
w
~ $30 US
This one looks great value. What do you guys think?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MINI-HI-FI-US...hash=item350101967522&_trksid=p3286.m63.l1177
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MINI-HI-FI-US...hash=item350101967522&_trksid=p3286.m63.l1177
Check out the DAC chip first: PCM2704 DAC = 16 bit "el cheap-o" http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/pcm2704.html
The reason many manufacturers use the 2704 (or similar), is not because it's is "el cheapo", meaning crap. It's because it's a very good quality DAC and easy to implement. at a reasonable cost.
Yes, it can only do 16 bit, 48KHz, but this is because it's a USB DAC. To implement USB, proprietary software has to be written and this is not viable for many small companies.
The DAC's they are making are very good, just limited to 16/48 because of USB. Some of the DAC's that have SPDIF as well as USB allow 24/96 via the SPDIF, but still only 16/48 via the USB input.
Yes, it can only do 16 bit, 48KHz, but this is because it's a USB DAC. To implement USB, proprietary software has to be written and this is not viable for many small companies.
The DAC's they are making are very good, just limited to 16/48 because of USB. Some of the DAC's that have SPDIF as well as USB allow 24/96 via the SPDIF, but still only 16/48 via the USB input.
In my previous post, I meant to say to get USB to work at 24/96 requires software to be written. At 16/44.1/48, standard drivers can be used.
Sorry for the 4 letter word too. I didn't think that particular word would have been banned.
BTW, I think DAC's that have 8 separate chips, instead of 8 times oversampling is an interesting technique.
Is this a similar design? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/moon-NOS-Nono...hash=item280274202964&_trksid=p3286.m63.l1177
Sorry for the 4 letter word too. I didn't think that particular word would have been banned.
BTW, I think DAC's that have 8 separate chips, instead of 8 times oversampling is an interesting technique.
Is this a similar design? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/moon-NOS-Nono...hash=item280274202964&_trksid=p3286.m63.l1177
I still don't quite understand why you all want to build a DAC for USB.
All professional / studio quality interfaces use the IEEE1394a protocol, commonly called FireWire. The reason is simple: software and tricked out drivers are free to very low cost and most standard drivers are built into the recent popular OS's, Windows 2K up and Mac OSX, 10.2 and up and Linux too. Further, Texas Instruments has a popular and inexpensive series of DAC / ADC chips that all feature 24 bit / 96K or better in both directions without any significant jitter questions.
To encourage folks to at least consider it, my company has several dozen PCI interface kits for FireWire that include two PCI cards and a FireWire cable, either 6-pin to 6-pin or 6-pin to 4-pin, buyer's choice.
See http://industrialcomponent.com/firewirestuff/fws46603.html
I will arrange for a special price for any and all diyAudio.com subscribers = US$10.00 each kit, plus shipping, limit one per customer. Please FAX your orders as credit card purchases are not secure by email.
(Note: The 6-pin X 2 port card is modern and fully compatible with any and all PCI 2.1 and up bus systems, the 4-pin X 1 port card is non-OHCI and virtually useless except for special cameras and certain older audio equipment. The cable is modern and completely certified for FW speeds to 1394a (FW400) or 1394b (FW800) performance.)
All professional / studio quality interfaces use the IEEE1394a protocol, commonly called FireWire. The reason is simple: software and tricked out drivers are free to very low cost and most standard drivers are built into the recent popular OS's, Windows 2K up and Mac OSX, 10.2 and up and Linux too. Further, Texas Instruments has a popular and inexpensive series of DAC / ADC chips that all feature 24 bit / 96K or better in both directions without any significant jitter questions.
To encourage folks to at least consider it, my company has several dozen PCI interface kits for FireWire that include two PCI cards and a FireWire cable, either 6-pin to 6-pin or 6-pin to 4-pin, buyer's choice.
See http://industrialcomponent.com/firewirestuff/fws46603.html
I will arrange for a special price for any and all diyAudio.com subscribers = US$10.00 each kit, plus shipping, limit one per customer. Please FAX your orders as credit card purchases are not secure by email.
(Note: The 6-pin X 2 port card is modern and fully compatible with any and all PCI 2.1 and up bus systems, the 4-pin X 1 port card is non-OHCI and virtually useless except for special cameras and certain older audio equipment. The cable is modern and completely certified for FW speeds to 1394a (FW400) or 1394b (FW800) performance.)
" ... There are many Firewire DAC's, it's just that most are for the recording industry so have ADC as well. ..."
True enough ... the better to rip as well as roar ...
Examples: I have these at home: AudioFire2 = http://echoaudio.com/Products/FireWire/AudioFire2/index.php and FireWire Solo = http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/FireWireSolo.html ... and I've tried these: FA-66 = http://rolandus.com/products/productdetails.aspx?ObjectId=731&ParentId=114 and FA-100 = http://rolandus.com/products/productdetails.aspx?ObjectId=702&ParentId=114.
Out of the box any of these are vastly superior to just about any USB audio interface, store bought or hand made. And that is not just my opinion, ask a professional studio engineer. ... Headroom alone is enough to tip the scales: 16 bit is seldom better than 85 db bandwidth, all pro FireWire 24 bit interfaces are better than 100 db bandwidth, that's basically what 24 bit without the jitter is all about.
(My company has a standing offer to buy and market decent FireWire playback DACs, whether it includes the ADC record (capture) side is irrelevant but certainly not a deal breaker.)
True enough ... the better to rip as well as roar ...
Examples: I have these at home: AudioFire2 = http://echoaudio.com/Products/FireWire/AudioFire2/index.php and FireWire Solo = http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/FireWireSolo.html ... and I've tried these: FA-66 = http://rolandus.com/products/productdetails.aspx?ObjectId=731&ParentId=114 and FA-100 = http://rolandus.com/products/productdetails.aspx?ObjectId=702&ParentId=114.
Out of the box any of these are vastly superior to just about any USB audio interface, store bought or hand made. And that is not just my opinion, ask a professional studio engineer.
... Headroom alone is enough to tip the scales: 16 bit is seldom better than 85 db bandwidth, all pro FireWire 24 bit interfaces are better than 100 db bandwidth, that's basically what 24 bit without the jitter is all about.(My company has a standing offer to buy and market decent FireWire playback DACs, whether it includes the ADC record (capture) side is irrelevant but certainly not a deal breaker.)
FastEddy said:
Sadly, FastEddy, appeals to rationality or any attempt to objectify performance in this arena are only likely to excite a furore of objections based ultimately on no more satisfactory assertion than that it is impossible to absolutely sure about anything.
Very good multi-channel recording-quality Firewire DACs are becoming increasingly affordable, and the next audio I/O device I buy will be Firewire.
Most recorded material is still 16-bit 44k1 and for most (hi-fi) playback purposes anything more than a USB DAC is overkill.
w
Anybody remember overkill? It was part of a philosophy called MAD.
Many people want to capture their vinyl collections at 24/96 (or higher) to play back from their PC. Also, ther is quite a lot at high resolution recordings available. So Higher resolution file playback compatibility may not be important to 90% of Hi-Fi enthusiasts, but it vital to the other 10%.
Can anyone confirm if Firwire has less jitter compared to USB2?
I have been looking at Firewire devices (I am a musician as well, so recording facilities are welcome) and have seen one or two that interest me. I want something portable, so I can use it with my laptop as well as desktop. I stilll want a coxial SPDIF out, so I can use my existing DAC and it needs to work at high resolutions.
However, my front runner at the moment is the DAVS DAC-1, which is a USB device. It is not as great as a recording device (features wise, not audio quality), but as a DAC and USB to SPDIF converter, it seems great. It would be a great stand alone DAC/Headphone amp when using my laptop out and about and I could then connect it to my Xindak DAC when back in my home studio. It has SPDIF inputs as well, so I can connect my CD player to it and then take the coaxial SPDIF out to my Xindak, so both my PC and CD will share the same input on the Xindak!
Does anyone know if jitter will be added or reduced taking a CD player into one DAC and then from that DAC into another DAC (all Coaxial SPDIF)? The DAVS has a very low jitter DAC (1ppm)
Can anyone confirm if Firwire has less jitter compared to USB2?
I have been looking at Firewire devices (I am a musician as well, so recording facilities are welcome) and have seen one or two that interest me. I want something portable, so I can use it with my laptop as well as desktop. I stilll want a coxial SPDIF out, so I can use my existing DAC and it needs to work at high resolutions.
However, my front runner at the moment is the DAVS DAC-1, which is a USB device. It is not as great as a recording device (features wise, not audio quality), but as a DAC and USB to SPDIF converter, it seems great. It would be a great stand alone DAC/Headphone amp when using my laptop out and about and I could then connect it to my Xindak DAC when back in my home studio. It has SPDIF inputs as well, so I can connect my CD player to it and then take the coaxial SPDIF out to my Xindak, so both my PC and CD will share the same input on the Xindak!
Does anyone know if jitter will be added or reduced taking a CD player into one DAC and then from that DAC into another DAC (all Coaxial SPDIF)? The DAVS has a very low jitter DAC (1ppm)
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