Upgrading cheap Cirrus Logic CS4344 24-bit, 192 kHz Stereo DAC

[Ian Greenhalgh]

Hi folks

I picked up this cheap DAC on ebay for just 3.99ukp inc. postage, figuring it would be a good first project for me to educate myself about DIY audio by upgrading it.

Here's the details of the chips onboard:

Cirrus Logic CS8416-CZZ receiver 192 KHz Digital Audio Interface Receiver.

Cirrus Logic CS4344 24-bit, 192 kHz Stereo DAC
CS4344/45/48 | Cirrus Logic

Tenor TE 7022 L Hi-Q USB Streaming Controller.

Texas Instruments TUSB 3200

PIC 16F54 8-bit microcontroller

I had a look on the net for people upgrading this DAC and found a useful thread where a guy does some simple upgrades to a very similar unit:

Do you want a cheap DAC that's good? - Tapeheads Tape, Audio and Music Forums

Soldering a pair of 1uf high quality caps directly to the output pins of the DAC in order to bypass the low quality buffer op-amp makes sense to me as an SQ upgrade. The DAC output as stock runs into a cheap 1uf electrolytic cap then into the buffer op-amp IC then into another cheap 330uf electrolytic then to the output RCAs; all this buffering stuff is to make the output impedance play well with all types of amps, but this guy found that bypassing that circuitry and having nothing but a pair of high quality 1uf caps between the DAC output and the RCAs was sufficient to drive his amp and gave a big upgrade in SQ.

So I propose to try the same thing, and I like the look and price of some of the Russian military surplus caps on ebay, such as these ones, which I believe are PIO type, not the very best, but good ones, according to the monster thread on this site about Russian caps:

1 uF 200 V LOT OF 2 RUSSIAN PAPER IN OIL PIO AUDIO CAPACITORS MBGP-3 МБГП–3 | eBay

Or would I be better off going for a pair of these?

1uF 400V MKP Bipolar Audio Capacitor Valve Amplifier Crossover UK STOCK | eBay

Next step is to find a suitable metal enclosure to put it in and then come up with a better power supply than the cheap wall wart it came with, it will take either 5v or 3.3v which has me thinking I can use an old PC PSU, possibly with a VRM to smooth out the supply.

 

[weissi]

DO NOT waste your money on those capacitors, those coupling caps will have very little effect overall. Invest in getting a better, cleaner power supply, then I'd replace all the electrolytics in the digital domain with polymer caps (like Kemet A750 series or OS-CON).

 

[Ian Greenhalgh]

I've been looking at power supplies on ebay and there is an absolutely bewildering array of them so I have no idea where to start with selecting a good one.

 

[Ian Greenhalgh]

I've bought a Cambridge Audio D100 CDP to use as an enclosure for this project and hopefully I can use the PSU of the D100 too, there's a lot of space inside, especially when the transport and other redundant parts are removed:

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.

I expect the PSU in this thing is much better quality than the Chinese units from ebay, certainly a torroidal transformer in a metal shielding can speaks of a high quality item.

So, hopefully I now have the enclosure and PSU I need, the other part is to add a decent analogue output stage, replacing the cheap electrolytics and op amp of the DAC.

It's been pointed out just using a pair of nice caps wouldn't make much difference, so what do people suggest for an analogue stage? I've been looking at the Lampizator website and something similar to the Lampizator analogue output stage seems like the way to go. Comments, suggestions?

 

[Markw4]

It might help if you could post good quality, in-focus, hi-res, photos of the dac board and cd player chassis. The should be good enough we could read part numbers on the ICs. Also, both side of the board would be better so as to be able to see interconnecting traces. As is the photos of are relatively little use compared to what they might be.

All that having been said, you really should probably take a look at ES9038Q2M Board thread also here. Those boards can be had for as little as $40. There is a wealth of information and experience at you disposal if you were to go in that direction for learning. Otherwise, you are off on your own and it will be hard for people to be able to offer as much good information and advice about possible easy improvements and the reasons for doing those particular things rather than other, less useful things.

Also, there is another thread about the CD chassis you are using that might be of interest: please help me find the digital out.

 

[Ian Greenhalgh]

Hi Mark

Thanks for the tips, I took the photos from the net, but I can break out my macro lens and make some hires closeups, not a problem, I'll do it when I have time.

Is this the board you refer to?

Assembled ES9038Q2M board ES9038 I2S DAC PCM 192K DSD 256 HIFI ELNA caps | eBay

I saw that thread, it's where I took the photo of the inside of the player from and why I chose to buy it - all that space inside and a nice PSU to work with.

 

[Markw4]

The most active current dac upgrade thread I was thinking of is this one: ES9038Q2M Board
The boards can be had for around $40 and there is a lot of info and help for making them sound a whole lot better. Maybe something like this to start with: Aiyima ES9038Q2M Decoder Board DAC I2S DSD Optical Coaxial Input Decoders For Audio Amplifier Headpset Amplifier Output DIY-in Amplifier from Consumer Electronics on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group

Some pictures of a modded board here: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/314935-es9038q2m-board-38.html#post5377834
And here: ES9038Q2M Board

For very high resolution pics, when you click on them to open the image at first you see it at reduced resolution. If you hover the mouse over the lower left hand corner of the open image you may see a white X symbol. Clicking on the X will expand the image to full size. You can also download the images for viewing in a suitable application. I like to use Irfanview for that, which is freeware.

 

[Ian Greenhalgh]

Cheers Mark, that's helpful.

I've been doing a lot of reading and the consensus opinion from learned people like Dr. Lampizator is that pretty much all modern DACs sound good and that it's all about the implementation - a good PSU and analogue stage, so I figured for my first attempt, any cheap DAC would do, hence this one I already have.

However, what you say about using the ES9038Q2M Board because I can then draw on the experience of others makes a lot of sense.

 

[Ian Greenhalgh]

I note there are two different designs for the ES9038 and they look like very different implementations, but are the same price, this is the one Mark suggested:

Assembled ES9038 DAC board Q2M I2S DSD 256K Optical Coaxial Input Decoder | eBay

Then there is this one that looks simpler and has some rather large caps onboard:

Assembled ES9038Q2M board ES9038 I2S DAC PCM 192K DSD 256 HIFI ELNA caps | eBay

I also noticed the earlier Sabre DAC, the ES9018 is a fifth the price, would this be a suitable board for a beginner like me, on a very tight budget, I could always upgrade the DAC later, using the same PSU and analogue stage:

ES9018K2M ES9018 I2S Input Decoding Decoder DAC Amplifier Board DIY BSG | eBay

 

[Markw4]

Cheers Mark, that's helpful.

I've been doing a lot of reading and the consensus opinion from learned people like Dr. Lampizator is that pretty much all modern DACs sound good and that it's all about the implementation - a good PSU and analogue stage,

Guess it depends on what the good doctor means by that. If he means that the best Sabre and the best AK dacs can compete depending on implementation then I would agree. If he means that lesser dac chips can compete with the best dac chips so long as they are both new, then I would probably take strong exception to that.

 

[Markw4]

I note there are two different designs for the ES9038 and they look like very different implementations, but are the same price, this is the one Mark suggested:

The one with the large caps has more built-in power supply stuff but is missing other important features. In any case, the power supply would probably need a fair amount of rework. I would avoid that one unless you really know what you are trading off and are certain it would be better for you.

 

[Ian Greenhalgh]

Well, this is what he wrote back in Feb, 2009 and at that time, he felt the earlier Sabres - ES9008 and ES9018 were top of the pile:

Category ZERO: best DACs money can buy today:

Buffalo DAC - unfortunately only in kit form but extremely easy to assemble. The first run was using Sabre reference 24 bit DAC from ESS and the newest one is upgraded with Sabre32 chip. Even the older chip impressed the living daylights out of me and the new one is even better. I am enamourated with this DAC, especially if driven by a semi decent transport. I can't possibly imagine someone dissatisfied with this sound except maybe the die hard TDA1540 fanatics.


CS4397 for example on a simple DIY DAC "Lampucera": / and its follower CS4398 Zhaolu DAC2,5C Driven by a good transport (or any transport really) it shines like a diamond. This is my GEM, my Kooh-I-Noor of Audio world. Only the Buffalo seriously challenged the Lampucera. At the price of 40 Euros we can consider it a joke but in fact this is not a joke. I would without hesitation recommend it to someone who has Ongaku amplifier and asks me for advice on CD player. That is AFTER the oscon mods of capacitors.

ARCAM Diva CD73 and Wolfson DAC WM8740 - a recent newcomer to hifi scene - Wolfson - it is a real killer, shame it comes in Vout output only. Probably most people will agree that it sets the CD standard VERY high, and all other DAC makers must go back and do their homework again. To my ears - after lampization with 6H6P tube the Wolfson is for sure one of the best DAC from current production, only beaten by the Buffalo ESS Sabre32. Having said that I know there is a new Wolfson model WM8741 out and also the dCs Ring Dac may be worthwhile. Cambridge CD player AZUR is so nicely made I fell in love with it. It has one stereo Wolfson or two mono ones, depending on MK. Buy one and send me flowers and a case of wino. 640 MK1 which is the same as 540 Mk2 is a better option than 640 Mk2 because it is cheaper and plays the same quality. Arcam Diva 73 is for a lot more money the definitive Wolfson application.

Burr-Brown PCM1794 DAC found in Shanling CD 300 - a killer but AFTER lampization. The best burr-brown in the history for sure, if you liked the Shanling 200 with PCM1738, the CD300 will blow your wig off. I am surprised how few manufacturers adopted the BB dac. (I am curious how good is their latest BB PCM1798 ?)

Analogue Devices AD1862 in TEAC VRDS-25 player. and DENON DPD2560 A nice all rounder. Very very safe choice that will appeal to everyone.

Philips DAC chip TDA-1549 applied in one of 9 players which were lucky enough to have it. Marantz 49, Philips 751, 753, Marantz cd5000, MICROMEGA MINIUM and Sugden Master. A cheap and simple DAC that equals the best ones in sound quality. Nirvana Seal of Approval.

Finally - a TDA1541A/S1 chip applied in any NAIM or Sony or Creek or Arcam or Musical Fidelity player and with NOS modification and lampization. The TDA chip is very sensitive to surrounding electronics. The capacitors, the power supplies, the signal, the ground. NAIM is in a class of it's own when it comes to electronic engineering. So the NAIM applications are closest to perfection. Add a nos mod (non over sampling) and this is the killer. Check this one: NAIM CDS1 or this one: NAIM CD3. Also SATCH dac with tube output stage. Also Cambridge Audio CD2

 

[Ian Greenhalgh]

The one with the large caps has more built-in power supply stuff but is missing other important features. In any case, the power supply would probably need a fair amount of rework. I would avoid that one unless you really know what you are trading off and are certain it would be better for you.

Cheers, makes sense.

 

[Markw4]

Well, this is what he wrote back in Feb, 2009 and at that time, he felt the earlier Sabres - ES9008 and ES9018 were top of the pile:

It sounds like we may not agree. That's okay though, everyone is of course entitled to their opinion, and I definitely don't want to start an argument with someone i don't even know.

My own opinion would be something more to the effect that something like Benchmark DAC-3 or Crane Song Solaris sounds better and also is more accurate than any the dacs that were mentioned. Of course, maybe some time has passed since the quote you gave was written. And maybe the doctor hasn't had a chance to compare those I mentioned with the others using a very good power amp and speakers. Many possibilities.

In any case, modern dacs don't all measure the same, and IMHO they don't sound the same either. However, what is good enough to satisfy a particular listener and allow a high degree of musical enjoyment is another matter, and one which is much more subject to individual opinion and preference.

 

[Ian Greenhalgh]

Well, he wrote that nearly a decade ago before the Benchmark was available, so he could only comment on what was available back then, I've no idea what his current feelings are about the current DACs.

I think what he was saying was that there was a small group of modern DACs that, with proper implementation, would satisfy almost any listener, therefore, any of that small group was a good choice.

I'm wondering, is it possible to buy a board that is just the DAC, without a PSU or analogue stage, seeing as those are going to be bypassed/replaced?

 

[Ian Greenhalgh]

Here's some pics of the USB DAC board I already have:

 

[Markw4]

If somebody made a basic low-cost option better to work with, then pretty much nobody would be messing around with modding the dacs they do, IMHO. Unfortunately, there isn't much good to work with. As price goes up, usually more gimmicks and bells and whistles are added first and SQ only goes up a little. That's the bad news. The good new is that a very good dac can be had for maybe around $200 and some work, with SQ that would be hard to find commercially even at $1k. Then again, if one can afford it a great dac can be had for around $2k. Of course, it should be possible to DIY a really good dac for less than $200 but we are stuck with buying some things we don't need in order to get some things we do need. Maybe by the time we get to the point of finalizing a design we can all agree on somebody could lay out a PCB which would make it easy to get to a good endpoint more directly.

 

[Markw4]

A datasheet for the cirrus part can be found here: https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/76/CS4344-45-48_F2-1141644.pdf
Although it is sold as a 24-bit part, the specs are not even good enough for really good 16-bit, much less 24-bit audio.

OTOH, the ES9038Q2M board in the other thread can reach near SOA 24-bit performance with distortion down at -120dB and noise at -122dB. Not only that, it sounds really good if very carefully implemented, which we know how to do. There are lovely details of music buried in noise and ugly distortion with that cirrus dac you have no idea even exist. Even at 16-bits on a good CD. And, even better with good hi-res content.

 

[Andersonix]

I suggest you exactly follow the datasheet for that Cirrus DAC just like I did for this one:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digi...80h-direct-output-cs4361-dac.html#post5253111

 

[Ian Greenhalgh]

Thanks for the explanations Mark, they make perfect sense.

The whole point of building this DAC is to then play lossless FLAC files through it from my PC as I ripped my entire CD collection as FLAC files and have a few thousand downloaded FLAC files as well, so the DAC should be capable of handling that sort of input. My Yamaha DSP-E800 has a 24/96 DAC and that sounds nice, (I'm currently using this DAC via TOSlink to my PC soundcard) so it would be pointless to build something inferior to that.

Well, almost pointless, the point of buying the very cheap Cirrus USB DAC was to give me some practice and experience before moving on to using more expensive components.

Hi Andersonix, how are you finding the direct output solution with the DAC output into a pair of hefty caps? Is it sounding good or have you changed things since?