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ALLO BOSS DAC 1.2 Performance
ALLO BOSS DAC 1.2 Performance
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Old 3rd February 2018, 09:05 AM   #31
soundcheck is offline soundcheck  Germany
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: DUS
Sorry for bugging you again.

One thing I'd like to add. To be fair.

Highest credits go to HifiBerry!

HifiBerry paved the road for many HAT DAC manufacturers
who were not having a clue (which some still don't have)
how a driver would have to be programmed and maintained.
For many of these piggybackers it's a simple cost issue!
No it's not just a simple cost issue. It's crucial to them.
Their business models wouldn't probably work if they'd have to pay
for SW development and not to forget maintenance.

Allo was piggybacking on HifiBerry in the beginning.
The Boss and the Piano drivers and related codecs still
have "Hifiberry genes" inside. (Which is not an issue as such!)
They do add more and more of their own stuff.


Enjoy.
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Old 6th February 2018, 12:51 PM   #32
cdsgames is offline cdsgames  Canada
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Join Date: Jun 2015
Quote:
Originally Posted by soundcheck View Post
On the other side.
Allo (inmate cdsgames) listens very closely to what we have to say.
You'll find several features that are based on feedback from this site.

Enjoy.
You are right , we do listen :-)
We have been extremely busy designing this (damn) 5v PSU. Smps design is harder than analog. EMI is a witch..
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Old 6th February 2018, 01:02 PM   #33
cdsgames is offline cdsgames  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Stewart View Post
Hey Soundcheck!

I loo
But then there's the Katana... based on what I've read, they appear to be focusing a LOT of their efforts on the output stages!


We have said so since the beginning . Output stage is using 6 discrete op amps ( I think they are about 75$ each..) Andrew (sparkoslab) is a wizard (and a great guy , old school)

IC (dac) is only one part of the equation , electrons must be plenty , clocks mudt be clean and output stage is at least as important as dac IC.

Katana has all ingredients .Back to testing..grr this mosfet is killing me..
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Old 9th February 2018, 06:30 AM   #34
soundcheck is offline soundcheck  Germany
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Location: DUS
My ES9023 made quite a jump when fed by a synchronous Kali MLCK.
I'm wondering if these one-clock solutions are the best choice for these
Sabre DACs.


And.

6 OpAmps ? Hmmh. SparkoLab - "Old school wizard" - Hmmh.

Is this a warning? 450$ for the output stage only!?!?

I'm wondering if you got on the wrong track!?!?

I know you'll let us know.
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Old 9th February 2018, 07:58 AM   #35
cdsgames is offline cdsgames  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soundcheck View Post
My ES9023 made quite a jump when fed by a synchronous Kali MLCK.
I'm wondering if these one-clock solutions are the best choice for these
Sabre DACs.


And.

6 OpAmps ? Hmmh. SparkoLab - "Old school wizard" - Hmmh.

Is this a warning? 450$ for the output stage only!?!?

I'm wondering if you got on the wrong track!?!?

I know you'll let us know.
I am saying if you buy the discrete opamps one unit will be about 45$ (75 is the dual version). But this is not about money. Its about sound.

An output stage made of discreet opamps ( Class A...:-) with a virtual ground for the ess sabre to feed current into...is basically ideal. I would suggest to peruse the website of Sparkos labs to understand why discreet opamps are better than monolithic opamps . Yeah I call him an "old time wizard" cause he is. :-)...and a great guy


Of course you need very clean -+ 15v for everything to work. Right now we are in the middle of tweaking the DC/DC convertor (yeap we have RC snubbers across the output and on the input) to stop the RFI and EMI . We got 1.4mv ripple and noise thats unacceptable to us. Good news is that MCLK jitter is lowest we measured on a DAC.

In the end , allo is not (and never was ) a company that overcharged customers in the name of HIFI gods. Rest assured that Katana will reflect the true BOM ...but yes its ALLOs hi end dac.

One last thing. On the analog side, we have 2 super caps fallowed by 2x3 film capacitors LR (thx Greg for pushing us )..plenty of electrons indeed. But it was not enough....so we used the latest technology in supercaps to add one on the mains that can give 3A of instantaneous power..again plenty of electrons on the PCB. I think that if you remove the PSU , it will still work for 30s at least.

So here you have it, plenty of power Master Ess Sabre (so 2 Xtals , thats a first) , with class A output opamps and great jitter.

Lets see how it sounds when we finished debugging.

Last edited by cdsgames; 9th February 2018 at 08:06 AM.
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Old 9th February 2018, 08:27 AM   #36
SanjeevM is offline SanjeevM
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Will a Supercap help in improving the SQ of Boss 1.2 also?
__________________
RPi 3/ Boss DAC 1.2/ TPA3251/ IFI Power 5V & Allo Adapter/ Paradigm Monitor 11 / Non-Electronics background
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Old 9th February 2018, 08:39 AM   #37
soundcheck is offline soundcheck  Germany
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You know. I'm a great fan of your products.

I do have my issues with old-school audio freaks/wizards/designers.
They - many of them - IMO pretty much prevent or slow down progress.
I'm not saying that everything is bad what's been learned in the past.

I've btw buried Class-A output stages years ago. They always sounded
artificial to me. They usually do have impressive dynamics. I never tried Sparkos of course.

IMO much more important then the output stage is the matching of it to the amp.


And then. You brought up 75$ per opamp. I just did the math.


And finally.
It's about sound for the money.
Great sound for little money. That has been your strong side for the time being.
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Old 9th February 2018, 09:02 AM   #38
cdsgames is offline cdsgames  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SanjeevM View Post
Will a Supercap help in improving the SQ of Boss 1.2 also?
Already included.
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Old 9th February 2018, 09:14 AM   #39
cdsgames is offline cdsgames  Canada
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Join Date: Jun 2015
Quote:
Originally Posted by soundcheck View Post
You know. I'm a great fan of your products.

I do have my issues with old-school audio freaks/wizards/designers.
They - many of them - IMO pretty much prevent or slow down progress.
I'm not saying that everything is bad what's been learned in the past.

I've btw buried Class-A output stages years ago. They always sounded
artificial to me. They usually do have impressive dynamics. I never tried Sparkos of course.

IMO much more important then the output stage is the matching of it to the amp.


And then. You brought up 75$ per opamp. I just did the math.


And finally.
It's about sound for the money.
Great sound for little money. That has been your strong side for the time being.
I strongly agree that in the end its about sound/money.In the higher end you get less and less improvements while exponentially spending more to chase those last buried sounds.


Katana , we hope , will change the hiend of RPI the way Boss did for the low end and Digione did for transport. Of course , we wont know until we test. We dont know yet what Katana can do. From a design point of view...its all there.

At whatever price point it will come , rest assured that sound/$, Katana will be a great value.
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Old 9th February 2018, 09:19 AM   #40
soundcheck is offline soundcheck  Germany
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SanjeevM View Post
Will a Supercap help in improving the SQ of Boss 1.2 also?
"A" supercap alone doesn't mean anything first of all. Nowadays it's a nice marketing buzzword.

Especially these little ones usually doesn't come with earth shattering specs.

Do you really need a huge supercap capacity right at the DAC power rails ?? I doubt it.

It again will be the combination of several factors and parts that'll "make" the music.

To put them in a power supply to build something similar to a very low ESR
battery is probably the most effective use-case.

Just my experience.
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