I recently struggled with a difficult click/pop issue with an external dac, and found a fix (in my case, it required replacing the laptop power supply).
I thought I'd share the results of my investigation here. Hopefully it may help others struggling with similar issues
DPC latency checker DPC Latency Checker
- Look for DPC latency spikes. If they coincide with glitches:
Latency Mon Resplendence Software - LatencyMon: suitability checker for real-time audio and other tasks
- Use it to find drivers that cause excess dpc latency and focus on fixing these: go to drivers tab, sort under highest execution (ms)
- List of common driver issues: https://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare/articles/solving-dpc-latency-issues/
Fixed Windows 7 Sound (Popping, Cracking & Skipping) | Corey DeGrandchamp
- Playback devices-> choose dac-> properties-> enhancements tab->disable all sound effects
- if both the ethernet port and wireless were active at the same time, I would get multiple svchost.exe spikes and the system would skip. I use wireless at my house so I disabled the ethernet port, since then no problems.
- Disabling everything in Network Connections except for the Wi-fi adapter stopped the cracking right off.
- Disable nvidia geforce powerizer
Optimizing Windows for Audio – Ableton
- Update drivers
- Use large audio buffers
- Run->Msconfig->disable unnecessary start up programs
- If graphics problem, Torches utility of PC but: Run-> SystemPropertiesPerformance ->Visual Effects tab->Adjust for best performance
- Turn off internet disable Anti-Virus
- disable Bluetooth
- Power options: Control Panel -> System and Security -> Power Options-> High Performance
- Control Panel ->System and Security ->System -> Device Manager -> Right Click each USB Root Hub->Choose Properties -> Power Management-> Make sure "Allow the computer to turn off this device to save power " is unticked.
- Generally not recommended as it makes PC run hot and fan to spool up, but if cpu is bottleneck: Power Options -> Change Plan Setting -> Change Advanced Plan Setting -> Processor Power Management-> Set Minimum Processor State to 100%.
https://forum.watmm.com/topic/89732-awful-clicking-audio-on-pc/
- update bios
- update foobar
- turn off wifi and antivirus
- increase asio/wasapi process priority in foobar
- disable system sounds
- Try Wasapi event
https://www.cantabilesoftware.com/glitchfree/
- More drastic changes that will affect PC operation but may fix issue
Other
- Start > Settings > Control Panel > System > Advanced > Performance Settings > Advanced Tab > Adjust for best performance of Background Services
- Paul McGowan (PS Audio): connect the computer to the Dac through a USB hub, .. offers a degree of isolation between the computer and the DAC, though its not complete
- 3 prong ac brick for laptop may cause ground loops leading to issues. Replace with double insulated power brick
Other resources
https://support.audient.com/hc/en-us/articles/202335209-Optimising-Windows-Computers-For-Audio
https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/eradicating-pc-audio-clicks-pops
https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/optimising-latency-pc-audio-interface
https://support.native-instruments....1729-Windows-Tuning-Tips-for-Audio-Processing
https://www.cambridgeaudio.com/en/technology/usb-audio-optimizing-windows-directsound-wasapi-asio
I thought I'd share the results of my investigation here. Hopefully it may help others struggling with similar issues
DPC latency checker DPC Latency Checker
- Look for DPC latency spikes. If they coincide with glitches:
Latency Mon Resplendence Software - LatencyMon: suitability checker for real-time audio and other tasks
- Use it to find drivers that cause excess dpc latency and focus on fixing these: go to drivers tab, sort under highest execution (ms)
- List of common driver issues: https://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare/articles/solving-dpc-latency-issues/
Fixed Windows 7 Sound (Popping, Cracking & Skipping) | Corey DeGrandchamp
- Playback devices-> choose dac-> properties-> enhancements tab->disable all sound effects
- if both the ethernet port and wireless were active at the same time, I would get multiple svchost.exe spikes and the system would skip. I use wireless at my house so I disabled the ethernet port, since then no problems.
- Disabling everything in Network Connections except for the Wi-fi adapter stopped the cracking right off.
- Disable nvidia geforce powerizer
Optimizing Windows for Audio – Ableton
- Update drivers
- Use large audio buffers
- Run->Msconfig->disable unnecessary start up programs
- If graphics problem, Torches utility of PC but: Run-> SystemPropertiesPerformance ->Visual Effects tab->Adjust for best performance
- Turn off internet disable Anti-Virus
- disable Bluetooth
- Power options: Control Panel -> System and Security -> Power Options-> High Performance
- Control Panel ->System and Security ->System -> Device Manager -> Right Click each USB Root Hub->Choose Properties -> Power Management-> Make sure "Allow the computer to turn off this device to save power " is unticked.
- Generally not recommended as it makes PC run hot and fan to spool up, but if cpu is bottleneck: Power Options -> Change Plan Setting -> Change Advanced Plan Setting -> Processor Power Management-> Set Minimum Processor State to 100%.
https://forum.watmm.com/topic/89732-awful-clicking-audio-on-pc/
- update bios
- update foobar
- turn off wifi and antivirus
- increase asio/wasapi process priority in foobar
- disable system sounds
- Try Wasapi event
https://www.cantabilesoftware.com/glitchfree/
- More drastic changes that will affect PC operation but may fix issue
Other
- Start > Settings > Control Panel > System > Advanced > Performance Settings > Advanced Tab > Adjust for best performance of Background Services
- Paul McGowan (PS Audio): connect the computer to the Dac through a USB hub, .. offers a degree of isolation between the computer and the DAC, though its not complete
- 3 prong ac brick for laptop may cause ground loops leading to issues. Replace with double insulated power brick
Other resources
https://support.audient.com/hc/en-us/articles/202335209-Optimising-Windows-Computers-For-Audio
https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/eradicating-pc-audio-clicks-pops
https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/optimising-latency-pc-audio-interface
https://support.native-instruments....1729-Windows-Tuning-Tips-for-Audio-Processing
https://www.cambridgeaudio.com/en/technology/usb-audio-optimizing-windows-directsound-wasapi-asio
FWIW, I updated my laptop to Win10, and ran into audio issues again. Here's an update to diagnose and reduce audio drop outs using Win10. My laptop is a happy camper again. It's set up for directsound to take advantage of EAPO
Latency Mon Resplendence Software - LatencyMon: suitability checker for real-time audio and other tasks
• Find drivers with high DPC latency (>1ms), high ISR routine execution times (nothing can be running for this test) or excess hard page faults (these take allot of time to process)
o “We believe that hard pagefaults are the most common cause of audio dropouts”. “The pagefault occurred in the process responsible for producing audio and also while it was producing audio”
General Setup for Audio PC
• Uninstall unnecessary programs (bloatware like driver updaters etc)
• Remove non-essential start up programs: Run, msconfig
• Schedule to avoid restarts: Settings, Update & Security, Windows Update , Change active hours
• Update BIOS and drivers
• If possible use ASIO or WASAPI event and use large audio buffers (not possible with Directsound)
• Reduce USB peripherals. In Device manager, isolate DAC on its own USB Root hub
• Turn off apps running in background (so not going to the internet). Settings, privacy, background apps
• Set power plan to “high performance”. Go into advanced, set min processor to 100%, ensure no throttle down on Ethernet port, USB ports, hard drive (as last resort due to wear but reduces page faults) etc.
• Device Manager
o Right click, and turn off power mgt (network, USB rot hub etc)
o Disable non-essential devices including (especially) wi-fi, and battery (if ac only)
o Do NOT disable anything in System or Computer, hard disk, IDE/ATAPI or SATA controller, keyboard, mouse, track pad, USB controller for external keyboard/mouse, display controller in Display adapters
• View resources by connection, and verify DAC audio device IRQ is solitary
• Test and interpret: Resplendence Software - LatencyMon: real-time audio suitability checker
• Update drivers with high DPC latency (>1ms). May need to roll back (but win10 may update again)
• To further reduce hard page faults:
o Close down unnecessary applications which consume a lot of RAM
o Close service applications which consume a lot of RAM (eg Search Indexer). Task manager, services
o Disable the pagefile altogether. Advanced System Settings->Advanced->Performance Settings->Advanced->Virtual memory->Change. If you have no pagefile, the system can run out of memory and will no longer create crash dump files in case of a system crash
• Windows 10 High Dpc Latency - Microsoft Community Users report improvement turning off Win 10 Dynamic ticking.
o Run cmd.exe with Admin privileges: After typing your command, hit Ctrl+Shift+Enter
o Enter bcdedit /set disabledynamictick yes (no for revert)
o restart your PC to notice the changes
• If CPU load is running high or Latency mon showing any cpu is running well below rating, consider disabling processor speedstep in bios
o “This feature may be useful to check which CPUs are connected to interrupts and verify how ISRs and DPCs are distributed among available processors. Also it may allow you exclude certain processes to which you have assigned a certain affinity.”
o Windows Tuning Tips for Audio Processing – Native Instruments A common reason for dropouts and audio artifacts is the audio interface driver not being able to process all of its data in time. Increasing the processing priority for background services (and with it, the priority of the audio driver) often contributes to an improved audio performance (System > Advanced > Performance Settings > Advanced Tab)
Next Level Changes
• Temporarily disable anti-virus and firewall, test again
• Playback devices-> choose dac-> properties-> enhancements tab->disable all sound effects
• Diagnose directx if using directsound https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4028644/windows-open-and-run-dxdiagexe
o Start, dxdiag, In the tool, select Save All Information
• Check OS for broken files (SFC and DISM) https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us...em-files/bc609315-da1f-4775-812c-695b60477a93
o start> CMD->run as Administrator-> sfc /scannow (May have to run 3 times to fix all problems)
o see link for DISM
• Tweak graphics
o Disable nvidia geforce PowerMizer https://appuals.com/fix-high-dpc-latency-on-windows-10/
o Looks bad but: Run->SystemPropertiesPerformance->Visual Effects tab->Adjust for best performance
• If hard drive performance is suspected https://support.audient.com/hc/en-us/articles/202335209-Optimising-Windows-Computers-For-Audio
o Device Manager, Open the Disk Drives menu, right click on drives and select properties, policies tab "Enable write caching" and "Turn off Windows write-cache buffer flushing" (For external Hard Drives change the option from Quick Removal to Better Performance)
• Disabling IPv6 https://thegeekpage.com/high-dpc-latency-on-windows-10/
• https://corneliousjd.com/2010/11/25/fixed-windows-7-sound-popping-cracking-skipping/ I have a Dell Latitude E6420. It was necessary to both update the Intel RAID drivers (using the new “Intel Rapid Storage” driver suite) as well as disabling the “O2Micro Integrated MMC/SD controller” driver
• Increase asio/wasapi process priority in foobar
• If having internet throughput issues (only): http://www.speedguide.net/downloads.php (TCP Optimizer: back up settings first)
• Disable in Bios a setting called Enhanced Memory Performance
• Add more RAM
• 3 prong ac brick for laptop may cause ground loops leading to issues. Replace with double insulated power brick
• A user also showed that a near dead battery caused issues for drop outs. “The drop-outs came from the computer power management system badly handling the dead battery” https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,114138.25.html
Other resources
https://www.cantabilesoftware.com/glitchfree/
https://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare/articles/solving-dpc-latency-issues/
https://support.audient.com/hc/en-us/articles/202335209-Optimising-Windows-Computers-For-Audio
https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/eradicating-pc-audio-clicks-pops
Windows Tuning Tips for Audio Processing – Native Instruments
https://www.cambridgeaudio.com/en/technology/usb-audio-optimizing-windows-directsound-wasapi-asio
DPC latency checker http://www.thesycon.de/eng/latency_check.shtml is only accurate with Win7 back. It will show spikes, but Latency Mon will be accurate
Latency Mon Resplendence Software - LatencyMon: suitability checker for real-time audio and other tasks
• Find drivers with high DPC latency (>1ms), high ISR routine execution times (nothing can be running for this test) or excess hard page faults (these take allot of time to process)
o “We believe that hard pagefaults are the most common cause of audio dropouts”. “The pagefault occurred in the process responsible for producing audio and also while it was producing audio”
General Setup for Audio PC
• Uninstall unnecessary programs (bloatware like driver updaters etc)
• Remove non-essential start up programs: Run, msconfig
• Schedule to avoid restarts: Settings, Update & Security, Windows Update , Change active hours
• Update BIOS and drivers
• If possible use ASIO or WASAPI event and use large audio buffers (not possible with Directsound)
• Reduce USB peripherals. In Device manager, isolate DAC on its own USB Root hub
• Turn off apps running in background (so not going to the internet). Settings, privacy, background apps
• Set power plan to “high performance”. Go into advanced, set min processor to 100%, ensure no throttle down on Ethernet port, USB ports, hard drive (as last resort due to wear but reduces page faults) etc.
• Device Manager
o Right click, and turn off power mgt (network, USB rot hub etc)
o Disable non-essential devices including (especially) wi-fi, and battery (if ac only)
o Do NOT disable anything in System or Computer, hard disk, IDE/ATAPI or SATA controller, keyboard, mouse, track pad, USB controller for external keyboard/mouse, display controller in Display adapters
• View resources by connection, and verify DAC audio device IRQ is solitary
• Test and interpret: Resplendence Software - LatencyMon: real-time audio suitability checker
• Update drivers with high DPC latency (>1ms). May need to roll back (but win10 may update again)
• To further reduce hard page faults:
o Close down unnecessary applications which consume a lot of RAM
o Close service applications which consume a lot of RAM (eg Search Indexer). Task manager, services
o Disable the pagefile altogether. Advanced System Settings->Advanced->Performance Settings->Advanced->Virtual memory->Change. If you have no pagefile, the system can run out of memory and will no longer create crash dump files in case of a system crash
• Windows 10 High Dpc Latency - Microsoft Community Users report improvement turning off Win 10 Dynamic ticking.
o Run cmd.exe with Admin privileges: After typing your command, hit Ctrl+Shift+Enter
o Enter bcdedit /set disabledynamictick yes (no for revert)
o restart your PC to notice the changes
• If CPU load is running high or Latency mon showing any cpu is running well below rating, consider disabling processor speedstep in bios
o “This feature may be useful to check which CPUs are connected to interrupts and verify how ISRs and DPCs are distributed among available processors. Also it may allow you exclude certain processes to which you have assigned a certain affinity.”
o Windows Tuning Tips for Audio Processing – Native Instruments A common reason for dropouts and audio artifacts is the audio interface driver not being able to process all of its data in time. Increasing the processing priority for background services (and with it, the priority of the audio driver) often contributes to an improved audio performance (System > Advanced > Performance Settings > Advanced Tab)
Next Level Changes
• Temporarily disable anti-virus and firewall, test again
• Playback devices-> choose dac-> properties-> enhancements tab->disable all sound effects
• Diagnose directx if using directsound https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4028644/windows-open-and-run-dxdiagexe
o Start, dxdiag, In the tool, select Save All Information
• Check OS for broken files (SFC and DISM) https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us...em-files/bc609315-da1f-4775-812c-695b60477a93
o start> CMD->run as Administrator-> sfc /scannow (May have to run 3 times to fix all problems)
o see link for DISM
• Tweak graphics
o Disable nvidia geforce PowerMizer https://appuals.com/fix-high-dpc-latency-on-windows-10/
o Looks bad but: Run->SystemPropertiesPerformance->Visual Effects tab->Adjust for best performance
• If hard drive performance is suspected https://support.audient.com/hc/en-us/articles/202335209-Optimising-Windows-Computers-For-Audio
o Device Manager, Open the Disk Drives menu, right click on drives and select properties, policies tab "Enable write caching" and "Turn off Windows write-cache buffer flushing" (For external Hard Drives change the option from Quick Removal to Better Performance)
• Disabling IPv6 https://thegeekpage.com/high-dpc-latency-on-windows-10/
• https://corneliousjd.com/2010/11/25/fixed-windows-7-sound-popping-cracking-skipping/ I have a Dell Latitude E6420. It was necessary to both update the Intel RAID drivers (using the new “Intel Rapid Storage” driver suite) as well as disabling the “O2Micro Integrated MMC/SD controller” driver
• Increase asio/wasapi process priority in foobar
• If having internet throughput issues (only): http://www.speedguide.net/downloads.php (TCP Optimizer: back up settings first)
• Disable in Bios a setting called Enhanced Memory Performance
• Add more RAM
• 3 prong ac brick for laptop may cause ground loops leading to issues. Replace with double insulated power brick
• A user also showed that a near dead battery caused issues for drop outs. “The drop-outs came from the computer power management system badly handling the dead battery” https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,114138.25.html
Other resources
https://www.cantabilesoftware.com/glitchfree/
https://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare/articles/solving-dpc-latency-issues/
https://support.audient.com/hc/en-us/articles/202335209-Optimising-Windows-Computers-For-Audio
https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/eradicating-pc-audio-clicks-pops
Windows Tuning Tips for Audio Processing – Native Instruments
https://www.cambridgeaudio.com/en/technology/usb-audio-optimizing-windows-directsound-wasapi-asio
DPC latency checker http://www.thesycon.de/eng/latency_check.shtml is only accurate with Win7 back. It will show spikes, but Latency Mon will be accurate
Of my 3 PCs, one has never had an issue (Dell Tower XPS8300), one occasionally has drop outs (Fujitsu Lifebook, only when under heavy load), one (older Dell business class E6420, 8G ram, i5 quad core) consistently dropped out every few minutes unless given extra care as shown above.
The cause isn't clear but I suspect related to quality of some of the drivers used. Regardless, many people have this issue (even with high spec'ed hardware) using bog standard machines, as a casual search will show, and as evidenced by responses from recording s/w and interface companies providing advice on how to address.
I started this thread intending for it to be a helpful resource for people unfortunate enough to be seeing this issue, and for others to share their fixes as well.
If you haven't had issues, great, then this thread's not for you. But please don't decrease the SNR with unhelpful and meaningless comments that read as thinly veiled disbelief of the existence of the phenomenon, if that's the case. This thread was never intended as a survey of how many do and don't have audio drop outs. I suspect that only a smaller minority of machines would have this issue.
The cause isn't clear but I suspect related to quality of some of the drivers used. Regardless, many people have this issue (even with high spec'ed hardware) using bog standard machines, as a casual search will show, and as evidenced by responses from recording s/w and interface companies providing advice on how to address.
I started this thread intending for it to be a helpful resource for people unfortunate enough to be seeing this issue, and for others to share their fixes as well.
If you haven't had issues, great, then this thread's not for you. But please don't decrease the SNR with unhelpful and meaningless comments that read as thinly veiled disbelief of the existence of the phenomenon, if that's the case. This thread was never intended as a survey of how many do and don't have audio drop outs. I suspect that only a smaller minority of machines would have this issue.
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I remember a ton of clicks, drop-outs and other annoyances with my old Win XP laptop.
Many of the tools listed above helped but never really fixed it completely.
After moving to a Lenovo laptop with Win 8, then 10, zero problems. Ditto the Dell laptop I bought 3 years ago. Never an audio problem - a least none that I didn't cause.
Many of the tools listed above helped but never really fixed it completely.
After moving to a Lenovo laptop with Win 8, then 10, zero problems. Ditto the Dell laptop I bought 3 years ago. Never an audio problem - a least none that I didn't cause.
Lucky dog! The problem child for me is a Dell. Searching ad nauseam, Dell's seem to be most cantankerous.
The problem came back for me after a windows update. Gotta Love Win10. By all objective metrics with latency mon, my Dell XPS8300 tower is a basket case but never has a single drop out, ever, using the in built sound card. The problem Dell laptop + USB DAC hammers the tower on all metrics. Still, drop outs every 15 min to hour. I was able to reduce them by pitching the vendor's drivers and using the windows audio drivers, but still not acceptable.
OTOH, my other dac (Arcam) has no problems. I think once a system is close to the tipping point, good dac drivers make all the difference.
F$%! SINAD, real value add testing of DACs should look into ground loops, USB noise bleed and driver stability. People are seeing problems with USB DACs well beyond what should be tolerated for commercial commodity goods. Its also mind bogling that there aren't standard root cause analysis methods, most is just hunt and peck straight to a hail Mary "corrective actions" (bring the prayer beads)
The problem came back for me after a windows update. Gotta Love Win10. By all objective metrics with latency mon, my Dell XPS8300 tower is a basket case but never has a single drop out, ever, using the in built sound card. The problem Dell laptop + USB DAC hammers the tower on all metrics. Still, drop outs every 15 min to hour. I was able to reduce them by pitching the vendor's drivers and using the windows audio drivers, but still not acceptable.
OTOH, my other dac (Arcam) has no problems. I think once a system is close to the tipping point, good dac drivers make all the difference.
F$%! SINAD, real value add testing of DACs should look into ground loops, USB noise bleed and driver stability. People are seeing problems with USB DACs well beyond what should be tolerated for commercial commodity goods. Its also mind bogling that there aren't standard root cause analysis methods, most is just hunt and peck straight to a hail Mary "corrective actions" (bring the prayer beads)
Very good resource kit in one place, thank you.
Ideally it should be only one 3-pin plug in the system with a ground connected to your DAC (it means only one Y-capacitor), it is not always possible. A traditional isolation transformers bricks can be used, low power transformers are not expensive.
Aslo check with a multimeter whether your IEC grounded power cables have proper wiring. I found one cable with reversed line and neutral pins.
Yes, it helps. I think you mean SMPS PSU (laptop brick) that do not have earth connection. Even with that you still need to fiddle with the plugs. My laptop has 2-pin Euro plug and to remove ground loops I had to reverse position of the plug. Integrated amp has also 2-pin Euro plug, but a DAC and external monitor have IEC 3-pin plugs. With two devices you have four combination to play with.
Ideally it should be only one 3-pin plug in the system with a ground connected to your DAC (it means only one Y-capacitor), it is not always possible. A traditional isolation transformers bricks can be used, low power transformers are not expensive.
Aslo check with a multimeter whether your IEC grounded power cables have proper wiring. I found one cable with reversed line and neutral pins.
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Another option for a potential fix, increase windows audio buffer size:
Adjustable Directsound Buffer Size?
Adjustable Directsound Buffer Size?
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