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ES9038pro main board with minimum essentials
ES9038pro main board with minimum essentials
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Old 11th December 2017, 04:31 PM   #11
BJosephs is offline BJosephs  United States
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Join Date: May 2011
Location: Bridgewater Ma, USA
Quote:
Originally Posted by wyan View Post
I plan to use LT3045 based regulator for the four digital power supply. The analog and clock might deserve better.

The LT3045 regulator will be squeezed in a small 13.6*30mm pcb that fits a 20*18*16 heatsink. Attached is how it is going to look "on paper".
You have so much space, why not just select your regulators and build into one PCB? I know you want to experiment but I bet you will find plenty to play with regarding I/V and never hear a difference in regulators if you pick a decent setup to start.
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Old 11th December 2017, 04:54 PM   #12
BJosephs is offline BJosephs  United States
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Originally Posted by wyan View Post
From what I read in the past few days, most articles suggesting a single ground plane for both digital and analog are based on two assumptions: either the digital section draws little current or the pcb has only two layers and component placement is a real challenge. Almost all these articles dated a long time ago. And the ESS article was for a evaluation board of two layers.

ES9038PRO draws a huge current of 400mA for the digital sections. They actually named VDD_L and VDD_R as analog which is quite against my intuition and I am still very confused. In their ES9018 schematics, ESS TECH actually put them in the category of digital.

Later articles actually advocate separate ground planes.

Staying Well Grounded | Analog Devices

For a four layer pcb, it is actually very easy, dedicate one layer to digital ground and another layer to analog ground. Don't even need to worry about partitioning one single layer, which may force some current to take a huge loop to get to the other end of the map. Two layers left are adequate for component placement.

The digital and analog ground planes might have to be connected somewhere through a diode or ferrite bead or/and a jumper -- some part of the digital circuit might have to refer to the analog ground to function properly.

There might not be any benefit of divide analog ground planes to left and right. The left(/right) analog pins are well positioned on left(/right). Associated currents do not have to cross territory if two analog channels are powered separately.
Uh Oh. I might have to go back to the drawing board on my project then. I have a 4 layer board but I used one internal plane to distribute 5vDC to all the individual regulators.
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Old 12th December 2017, 02:58 AM   #13
wyan is offline wyan
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Join Date: Mar 2013
ES9038pro main board with minimum essentials
Quote:
Originally Posted by BJosephs View Post
You have so much space, why not just select your regulators and build into one PCB? I know you want to experiment but I bet you will find plenty to play with regarding I/V and never hear a difference in regulators if you pick a decent setup to start.
Hi, Thanks. It is doable, especially the four digital power supplies. There is space on the outer area. I rotate power supply modules for soekris analog supply and difference can be heard. Oscillator supplies should matter as well. I will keep options open for them for sure.

Also, putting too many power supplies onboard may have a potential heating issue.

I will think about it later. Right now, I am doing a few final adjustment and will like to print out a sample first.
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Old 12th December 2017, 02:59 AM   #14
wyan is offline wyan
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ES9038pro main board with minimum essentials
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Originally Posted by BJosephs View Post
Uh Oh. I might have to go back to the drawing board on my project then. I have a 4 layer board but I used one internal plane to distribute 5vDC to all the individual regulators.
Have fun drawing.
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Old 14th December 2017, 04:11 PM   #15
wyan is offline wyan
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Join Date: Mar 2013
ES9038pro main board with minimum essentials
Paranoid about the look. So this is how the current version looks.

A few final decisions to make before having a few sample printed. Cheers.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg ES9038PRO_T.jpg (44.7 KB, 276 views)
File Type: jpg ES9038PRO_B.jpg (47.1 KB, 271 views)
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Old 14th December 2017, 04:54 PM   #16
mlee is offline mlee  Canada
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For what its worth. I just finished laying out a board for this and I found it tricky. All the different power rails and the layout of the oscillator and digital I/O I found a pain. Seemed like everything was a compromise.

Not sure if this is helpful but I might:

1. I wouldn't do anything less than 4 layer for this chip. Too many power rails and digital I/O.

2. Since you have room on the board I'd think about putting on-board LT3045 or something from Analog Devices with low noise. Leave a header for a shunt regulator so it can be an OR power option. Looks like you have room for this. If the PCB area is free, seems like no harm.

3. Beef up all power lines. This is hungry IC. Thick power lines would be good.

4. Not sure if you want to make the jump to smaller by-pass caps but I put them on the same side as the IC close to the pins. 0402 fit onto the same layer as the ESS9038pro.

Looks like you got all the important stuff fairly close to the IC so it should work! Hope you have fun with this project. I put all the regulators on the bottom layer and cleared a space on the top for heatsinks just in case.

Attached is a small top layer short of what I did around the ES9038pro. I have not had a chance to get the parts on this board yet but looking forward your experiences with this.
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File Type: png ESS-Layout.png (45.0 KB, 271 views)
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Old 15th December 2017, 01:52 AM   #17
wyan is offline wyan
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Join Date: Mar 2013
ES9038pro main board with minimum essentials
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlee View Post
For what its worth. I just finished laying out a board for this and I found it tricky. All the different power rails and the layout of the oscillator and digital I/O I found a pain. Seemed like everything was a compromise.

Not sure if this is helpful but I might:

1. I wouldn't do anything less than 4 layer for this chip. Too many power rails and digital I/O.

2. Since you have room on the board I'd think about putting on-board LT3045 or something from Analog Devices with low noise. Leave a header for a shunt regulator so it can be an OR power option. Looks like you have room for this. If the PCB area is free, seems like no harm.

3. Beef up all power lines. This is hungry IC. Thick power lines would be good.

4. Not sure if you want to make the jump to smaller by-pass caps but I put them on the same side as the IC close to the pins. 0402 fit onto the same layer as the ESS9038pro.

Looks like you got all the important stuff fairly close to the IC so it should work! Hope you have fun with this project. I put all the regulators on the bottom layer and cleared a space on the top for heatsinks just in case.

Attached is a small top layer short of what I did around the ES9038pro. I have not had a chance to get the parts on this board yet but looking forward your experiences with this.
Hi, thanks for the inputs. I will beef up the power lines.

For first samples, I will go with 1206. Easy to hand solder. Also, if you go with C0G capacitors, the smallest choice seem to be 1206. I put most of the capacitors on back side and there are plenty of space.

I could also put LT3045 regulators on board, but will settle on separate little power supply boards for now. Need to evaluate before further action. I know there were designs with on-board regulators that get pretty hot in working (but I check that board there are a lot of 117 regulators which tend to produce heat). Plus, I have quite some power supplies ready to try. Cheers.
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Old 10th January 2018, 03:37 AM   #18
TypodCrow is offline TypodCrow
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Hey there, any updates on this project? Looks really cool!
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Old 10th January 2018, 10:37 AM   #19
wyan is offline wyan
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ES9038pro main board with minimum essentials
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Originally Posted by TypodCrow View Post
Hey there, any updates on this project? Looks really cool!
Thanks a lot for the encouragement. Since there was space on board, I spent some time and integrated isolation / reclocking sub-circuit on board. These options can be disabled if the digital inputs are clean. Shall print pcb and test it soon. Cheers.
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Old 9th February 2018, 12:50 PM   #20
2wice is offline 2wice  South Africa
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Originally Posted by wyan View Post
Thanks a lot for the encouragement. Since there was space on board, I spent some time and integrated isolation / reclocking sub-circuit on board. These options can be disabled if the digital inputs are clean. Shall print pcb and test it soon. Cheers.
Hi there any update please? keeping my eye on this.
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