@system54, Sorry for being so slow to understand. Never heard of that before. I guess there are ways that could happen, but it doesn't seem like it should be very common or a very large effect unless maybe I am missing something. It does turn out that crystal clocks and some types of capacitors can be sensitive to vibration, but it isn't something one would normally expect to be a problem in a well designed and well constructed dac. Maybe it would help me understand better if you could say a little more about how much of an effect you heard, how loud the music was playing, what did it sound like when it happened, etc.
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Microphonic in some way or other, yes, meaning there would be some conversion of mechanical vibrational energy to corresponding electrical energy. Whether or not the resulting effects on dac output would be audibly recognizable as due to mechanical vibration would depend a lot on whatever the exact physical process was.
Well, I brought out the Katana dac I still have here for review. It is the last version they sent out to the reviewers, not the one they are working on now. After making the latest mods to my Chinese dac I think it is clearly back in second place with the current rankings as follows:
1. Benchmark DAC-3
2. Mark's modded dac
3. Katana with three power supplies
However, it has been suggested to me that I try Katana with four power supplies and that very well might change the rankings again. I could move forward to try that but I will need to find out how much +-15v current I would need to be able to supply. I will ask and see what they say.
1. Benchmark DAC-3
2. Mark's modded dac
3. Katana with three power supplies
However, it has been suggested to me that I try Katana with four power supplies and that very well might change the rankings again. I could move forward to try that but I will need to find out how much +-15v current I would need to be able to supply. I will ask and see what they say.
Hmmm, I tried a +-15v linear supply with Katana that uses an LM337 for the negative rail. Think it may have started oscillating. Will have to go back and try something else, or troubleshoot with a scope I guess. Hopefully, will have something working for that soon that I can report here.
Also, talked to Allo and they say they hope to send a new version discrete opamp board with different filtering and an isolator board very soon. They think those things should audibly improve sound quality along with whatever an outboard +-15v linear supply may do.
If the outboard supply does help then at some point we would have to add up the cost for a Katana system including the power supplies to get to some (as yet undefined) level of sound quality. Obviously, there will be some more to do to get a better handle on where the product will fit in with other dacs in terms price/performance ratio.
Also, talked to Allo and they say they hope to send a new version discrete opamp board with different filtering and an isolator board very soon. They think those things should audibly improve sound quality along with whatever an outboard +-15v linear supply may do.
If the outboard supply does help then at some point we would have to add up the cost for a Katana system including the power supplies to get to some (as yet undefined) level of sound quality. Obviously, there will be some more to do to get a better handle on where the product will fit in with other dacs in terms price/performance ratio.
i can recommend to test three scenarios:
1. hifi equipment placed central to the loudspeaker
2. hifi equipment on wall side (dampded)
3. hifi equipment in separate room
the result will shock most people
How so?
I recently moved my dac and power amp around in the same room. No change in sound, it sounded excellent either way.
OK, now let's add up the total cost of the modded DAC INCLUDING the extra boards, chips, cables etc. AND the potential costs for cases and cords and standoff etc. Then the shock will come!
I know. Been there recently....started as a $40 experiment. Ended up as
system54 would you be so kind and post some pictures of your DAC? Your wiring would be interesting.
Regarding 1+2 it depends how good is the isolation of your DAC to the floor and what material is your floor made of (resonating wood panels or solid concrete etc.). The vibration closer to the wall could be higher due to sound pressure knots here. Nevertheless I cannot see the relation between resonating equipment and sound impact if you can exclude a resonating sensitive clock crystal or lose contacts of your plugs or relais in signal path.
Scenario 3 is a different thing. Here you have probably longer wires, different plugs and though different grounding condition in your house that all might have some impact on SQ. But anyway difficult to compare within a short time of set-up change (btw. this is also the case for nearly all reported mods here as most of us do not have 2 DACs to compare with and without mod. in an direct A-B-X comparisson).
Regarding 1+2 it depends how good is the isolation of your DAC to the floor and what material is your floor made of (resonating wood panels or solid concrete etc.). The vibration closer to the wall could be higher due to sound pressure knots here. Nevertheless I cannot see the relation between resonating equipment and sound impact if you can exclude a resonating sensitive clock crystal or lose contacts of your plugs or relais in signal path.
Scenario 3 is a different thing. Here you have probably longer wires, different plugs and though different grounding condition in your house that all might have some impact on SQ. But anyway difficult to compare within a short time of set-up change (btw. this is also the case for nearly all reported mods here as most of us do not have 2 DACs to compare with and without mod. in an direct A-B-X comparisson).
OK, now let's add up the total cost of the modded DAC INCLUDING the extra boards, chips, cables etc. AND the potential costs for cases and cords and standoff etc. Then the shock will come!
I know. Been there recently....started as a $40 experiment. Ended up as
My cost was no doubt more due to the experimentation I did. However if you look at the pictures I posted of the current test system and add up the cost of the parts now in use, it is maybe around $200 worth of stuff, maybe a little more like $250. That's about what I have said all along it takes to make a pretty good dac by modding.
The DAC-3 has a headphone jack on the front. It always sounds the same.
Hi Mark
with the new mods the external PSU (dual rail) is not needed (or only slightly better). We improved multiple aspects of the Katana including noise escaping the DC/DC convertor , better LPF filtering etc. Each step made a better SQ. We will wrap the testing next week , components were ordered and manual will be updated . You will get one of the first Katana 1.2version
Hi cdsgames,
Very good news. Looking forward to hearing the next version. This process of taking a little extra time in the short term to fine tune the design should benefit everybody in the long term.
Also, as as sort of side effect, as the sound quality of Katana gets better, my modded Chinese dac continues to get better too (most recent changes posted in this thread a few days ago). Don't know if I would keep working on my own project if Katana didn't keep me excited about what these ES9038Q2M dac chips can do.
-Mark
Very good news. Looking forward to hearing the next version. This process of taking a little extra time in the short term to fine tune the design should benefit everybody in the long term.
Also, as as sort of side effect, as the sound quality of Katana gets better, my modded Chinese dac continues to get better too (most recent changes posted in this thread a few days ago). Don't know if I would keep working on my own project if Katana didn't keep me excited about what these ES9038Q2M dac chips can do.
-Mark