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Old 17th July 2018, 07:59 AM   #1991
paulmarinis is offline paulmarinis  Greece
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markw4 View Post
What do you mean by that? What is your understanding on that?
I actually concluded that from your posts, at some point you said that the real differences come with current to voltage conversion and changing capacitors will not do much.
As im not that good at circuit making, is there something ready for current to voltage conversion?
would something like that do?

Current To Voltage I/V Conversion Photoelectric Signal Amplifier Module Emitter | eBay
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Old 17th July 2018, 09:31 AM   #1992
pentajazz is offline pentajazz
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For those who want to try the real time pcm to dsd conversion in foobar2000:

Foobar 2000 for Dummies (Part 1) – General Setup | DIY-Audio-Heaven
Foobar 2000 for Dummies (Part 2) – Playing DSD – New SACD plugin (0.9.x and 1.x.x Series) | DIY-Audio-Heaven
Foobar 2000 for Dummies (Part 3) – Playing DSD – Old SACD plugin (0.8.x and 0.7.x series) | DIY-Audio-Heaven


There are plenty of custom DSD filters to select, 4 different algorithms to convert PCM to DSD based on Philips ProTech tools.

For me there is no need to rely on hardware up-sampling if you are using only audio files on a pc, through spdif or i2s over usb or whatever.

note if connecting to DACs: spdif limit DSD64 (DoP), DSD128+ only over i2s


have fun..

Last edited by pentajazz; 17th July 2018 at 09:35 AM.
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Old 17th July 2018, 06:27 PM   #1993
Markw4 is offline Markw4  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulmarinis View Post
I actually concluded that from your posts, at some point you said that the real differences come with current to voltage conversion and changing capacitors will not do much.
Relatively speaking, changing a few caps won't do much. But, using the right passive components to fabricate I/V and differential stages is important and that point is made by ESS in their documentation.

Of course, the first thing people want to know is, what cheap (or expensive) ebay board will work at least well-enough for upgrading the DAC? For power supplies, there may be a few. Other than that, the answer is none, you have to build it yourself. I have given you pictures of one way of doing it. The schematic for what I did is given in this thread. Information about power supplies and bypassing, its all there.

Basically, that's all there is. Some examples and some advice, but its not be organized as a beginner or kit type of project. One reason for that is when starting out there was no way of knowing what exact architecture would win out. We are only now getting pretty close to the end of knowing everything we need to know to get the support circuitry around the dac chip good enough that we are probably getting back to the point where the dac chip may be the weak link, but we are not quite all the way there yet, IMHO.

Last edited by Markw4; 17th July 2018 at 06:29 PM.
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Old 18th July 2018, 01:32 AM   #1994
Markw4 is offline Markw4  United States
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Regarding software or hardware upsampling, the only thing I can say is that not all upsamplers are the same. A result, some sound a lot better than others. My recommendations are only for things that I have tried and found to work well. In particular, there are no software upsamplers I am recommending at this time.

Pretty soon I hope to test out the new lower cost AK4317 board from ebay. I may do some mods on it to improve signal integrity for the I/O interconnections. The reason the new board is lower cost is because it is PCM/I2S/DSD input only. There are no SPDIF, TOSLINK, or AES inputs. Assuming it works as well or better than the other AK4317 board with the ES9038Q2M DAC, it would be suitable for those folks using Amanero or XMOS USB boards, and who do not need other types of inputs.

In addition, in order to get very high sample rate PCM/DSD to work with the DAC board I had to modify the board with more ground pins and wire the PCM/DSD interconnection cabling to reduce jitter and ground bounce, and to improve high speed reliability. I will see I if can find the post with pictures of how to do that. Presumably, the same kinds of issues would be likely to occur with an Amanero or XMOS board at the highest sample rates.

EDIT: Pictures of improved PCM/I2S/DSD interconnections: ES9038Q2M Board

Last edited by Markw4; 18th July 2018 at 01:43 AM.
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Old 18th July 2018, 01:20 PM   #1995
Markw4 is offline Markw4  United States
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Regarding the promised Allo Katana review, looks like it may be a little delayed. While testing here found something that could affect playback sound quality. Asked Allo about it and after a little of their own testing they apparently found I was onto something. Received a follow up email from them asking that reviewer testing be suspended until further notice, although they said they do not think it will take very long before notice will come. Anyway, nothing I can do about giving folks here a timely review until I get the go ahead from Allo to continue.

Last edited by Markw4; 18th July 2018 at 01:25 PM.
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Old 18th July 2018, 02:17 PM   #1996
terry22 is offline terry22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markw4 View Post
Regarding the promised Allo Katana review, looks like it may be a little delayed. While testing here found something that could affect playback sound quality. Asked Allo about it and after a little of their own testing they apparently found I was onto something. Received a follow up email from them asking that reviewer testing be suspended until further notice, although they said they do not think it will take very long before notice will come. Anyway, nothing I can do about giving folks here a timely review until I get the go ahead from Allo to continue.
I read this on the allo katana thread yesterday
You're the sherlock holmes of diyaudio!

I'm waiting for a new clock for my board
http://www.crystek.com/crystal/spec-...k/CCHD-575.pdf

In your pictures, your new clock reads CCHD-975-90, but I can't find this model.

As I am going to do soldering job on the board, do you think Some caps replacements could help SQ?

I know that the big improvement mod is the I/V stage but it is beyond my skills for now. I will try to find some help from a friend, cause I will need a real 'step by step' tutorial for this mod.

I already installed low noise psu dual rail and LT3045-78xx 3.3v regulator and I changed the opamp.

So, after the clock replacement, What may I (try to) do to improve SQ?

btw, Thank you Mark and all the others 'pros' for the knowledge you gave from the start of this thread last December.
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Old 18th July 2018, 02:36 PM   #1997
Markw4 is offline Markw4  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terry22 View Post
In your pictures, your new clock reads CCHD-975-90,
... btw, Thank you Mark and all the others 'pros' for the knowledge you gave from the start of this thread last December.
The clock I have is a CCHD-575-100-50. That's 100MHz, 50ppm.

You and all those who have thanked me for my contributions to the thread are all quite welcome. My goal has been to try to help people make better DACs without needing access to expensive specialized test equipment and through learning more about how DACs and electronics in general work.

Regarding an I/V stage, I think Mikett posted some pictures of his I/V stage for this DAC before he had a mishap with the DAC board and went on to something else. Anyway, Mike's I/V stage wasn't nearly so tiny as the one I did. IIRC, he used some copper foil in places to help with making some ground plane on his I/V board. Maybe if Mike would be so good so as to re-post pictures of that it might look easier to build than what I did.

Somehow or other we need to find some way for people to be able to build an I/V stage that isn't too daunting to take on as a project. That, and a proper AVCC supply are really essential for good SQ results.
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Old 18th July 2018, 03:11 PM   #1998
Markw4 is offline Markw4  United States
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@terry22, Found pictures of Mikett's I/V and AVCC board. Hopefully, that may look more practical to implement?
ES9038Q2M Board

Although, the board Mike did is not unreasonable in size, I would like to see some of the critical wires be shorter, such as for AVCC and ground. I think I may have mentioned to Mike back then that mounting his board on the bottom of the DAC board rather than the top might be one way to help keep the wiring very short, low resistance and low inductance, and to maintain small loop areas.

Last edited by Markw4; 18th July 2018 at 03:15 PM.
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Old 18th July 2018, 04:00 PM   #1999
Mikett is online now Mikett  Canada
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Hi guys

My board was a diversion from me towards the 3 op amp IV stage. Once I realized it looked easy I wanted to see how a one op amp solution would sound to the 3 op amp IV. Well as you know it did not come to pass.
However since that time, I had suspected that the 1 op amp solution posted by ESS has an error in the biasing of the output stage. I am not knowledgeable enough to determine what the error was but abraxalito pointed out the error AFTER I found out there was something fishy in the output. ES9038Q2M Board
That would explain the output voltages I was getting. Always check the output before hooking up everything.
Prior to that I had begun laying out the addition using out the 3 op amp stage. Since then all this is laying there since the 9038Q2M board is no more.
One key reason why I had placed the board above was because thoughout the project my eyes were firmly affixed to how I could fit this into a case. As I started cobbling bits and pieces I started to realize the end result may not fit nicely into a case.
So when I put the DAC project into RESET I started off with something that I already knew what I needed it to do and what modifications I wanted to do. So I went into a 9028 PRO board instead.
Moving from 9038Q2M to a 9028Pro board

About removing the LT317/337 I am going to put them back in as I will be using them as preregulators only and will cut the traces to divert to the SuperRegulator Power Supply. I will be able to get all of this into a case dedicated to this DAC board. Except that I will be mounting my EMI filter and transformers in another remote case. Only low voltage AC will be coming into the DAC case.
Even replacing the clock is easy on the 9028 board as there should be pads ready to accept them as shown in posting #108

Last edited by Mikett; 18th July 2018 at 04:24 PM.
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Old 19th July 2018, 06:59 AM   #2000
terry22 is offline terry22
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Thank you guys for the help.
I'll have a look at Mikett I/V and at the 9028 board thread too.
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