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DAC blind test: NO audible difference whatsoever
DAC blind test: NO audible difference whatsoever
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Old Yesterday, 01:09 PM   #1881
Jakob2 is offline Jakob2  Germany
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Join Date: Jun 2004
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Mainly OT

Originally Posted by 00940 View Post

I don't expect to save anyone from buying the wrong speaker. It's like wine, too subjective.
Of course subjectivity plays a role but i meant it to help others to get what they subjectively prefer and not due to fooling themselves due to bias.

When I advice a friend, my position is: don't waste your money on cables (above what's needed for something solid and reliable), be aware of the crazy diminishing returns, if any, for amps and DACs once you're above 1000$ (more for high power amps) and you're on your own for the speakers. So listen, listen, listen (to the speakers, not the salesman). Once you've found something you like, we will find the rest.
Nothing wrong with that. Imo to listen to the salesman isnīt wrong too, but you should not believe him per se.

It is imo important to remember that intersubject variation can be surprisingly large (means between listeners), normal stereophonic reproduction is a very lossy version of reality (leaving binaural aside for the moment) and therefore depends strongly on learned abilities. Our brain tries to create a reasonable illusion (reasonable means compatible to our experience) from the cues it gets during the reproduction.

And we should keep in mind that it is a system that we are listening to. Composed of the listener the technical stuf and the room.
I often think that it is amazing what carefully selected/combined stuff is able to do (itīs the holistic approach).

To get a bit back to our "test topic" iīd be interested to know what kind of experimental evidence would be sufficient to change your belief about questionable stuff/effects.
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Old Yesterday, 02:28 PM   #1882
Doppler9000 is online now Doppler9000  Canada
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Originally Posted by scott wurcer View Post
You mis-understand my point, within the amateur astronomy community all these trade offs are discussed as technical issues there are no magic tweeks that are not understood by conventional theory. There are very expensive eyepieces (for instance) that give you better eye relief, etc. but they are simply something that takes a lot more effort to produce i.e. cost more money.
I understand what you are saying.

The problem is that you are assuming there is an objective (pardon the pun) and obvious demarcation between magic and science with which everyone agrees.

You have your view of what the line is, but others are likely to disagree.

With regard to telescopes, I recall a long debate regarding whether or not larger apertures can be at a resolution disadvantage to smaller telescopes under some conditions of poorer atmospheric "seeing".

The debate split between two camps: one calling the premise a "myth", others believing that there were conditions under which a smaller telescope could outperform a larger one of otherwise equivalent quality. The latter camp had more theoretical support, the former was more empirically-driven. Sound familiar?

If there is a subjective element to an endeavor, you will have debate, and people at all points along the continuum will be just as convinced that they are right and others are wrong, as matters of fact.

I understand that in the field of optics there is no obvious equivalent of "room dots" or whatever, but if you look at debates regarding the efficacy of apodizing masks to improve perceived resolution, for example, you will see that the sorts of arguments are not that different.

Last edited by Doppler9000; Yesterday at 02:45 PM.
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Old Yesterday, 02:55 PM   #1883
scott wurcer is offline scott wurcer  United States
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I understand what you are saying but these issues are relatively far and few between and hardly in the league of Tice Clocks and Shatki Stones.

My current understanding here is that somehow when manufacturers hold demos and/or "blind" tests they are innocent and their "science" is to be held true until someone can prove it wrong. At least their agenda can't be hidden.
"The question of who is right and who is wrong has seemed to me always too small to be worth a moment's thought, while the question of what is right and what is wrong has seemed all-important."
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